Slim,
I agree. Enough with this boom room crap. Let's talk about something constructive like drinking. I've been sipping some really good tweleve year old rum today. What are the rest of your doing besides cluttering up the Internet?
 
Rummy 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Slim <salm at mn.rr.com>
To: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:52:35 -0600
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boom Room Update Feb 3


On 2/4/06 2:49 PM, "Slim" <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:

Oops--something went wrong there.  That was my post not Art's.

I don't remember any time this list was so focused on one topic.  Amazing!

Slim

> On 2/4/06 2:16 PM, "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
> My BR is made entirely of sailcloth except the screen panels and the clear
> front.  Although the roof is quite taught on it's frame there was one time
> in an extreme downpour when we had some pooling but it didn't leak.  We just
> pushed up with our hands and dumped the pool off from the inside.  I've
> heard it said that if you touch a pooled roof from the inside you'll start a
> weep. This hasn't been the case with mine.  I've never treated it with any
> water proofing and it has never leaked.  But if the roof went over the boom
> there would be less if any pooling to worry about.
> 
> I'm not unsatisfied with my PVC frame but I'm not steadfastly defending it
> either.  If the frame could be simplified with say, the fore and aft boom
> yokes and port and starboard connecters, SS wouldn't be too heavy or
> expensive.  
> 
>> Dave,
>> 
>> It is you due the thanks.
>> 
>> Leaking unacceptable?  Sunbrella a certain, even if not entirely tight.  Put
>> a
>> puddle of water on a size of Sunbrella - note that some their fabric is not
>> awning quality - and it will not penetrate.  I would almost guarantee pooling
>> off of a PVC or aluminum frame, maybe not leaking depending on type and
>> weight
>> of fabric.
>> 
>> Tight frame.  SS is rigid, aluminum, unless heavily reinforced will bend or
>> crimp under stress.  Try to bend the 7/8" SS tube and compare.
>> 
>> Sunbrella should be good for five years, and available in many colors.  I
>> would likely use West, look at Westmarine.com for ideas.  I use the Pacific
>> Blue for looks, but have not noticed any problem of heat buildup.  Having
>> used
>> the Sunbrella so extensively as I have, I don't think I could recommend
>> otherwise.  
>> 
>> I think our pooling of ideas has come a long way, folks.
>> 
>> Art
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Feb 4, 2006 1:51 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boom Room Update Feb 3
>>> 
>>> Art, thanks.
>>> 
>>> If the stock parts create the best frame, then great.  If one custom
>>> piece (like a central yoke) does a better job of integrating stock
>>> parts, maybe even better for GBI.  We'll see where the logic takes us.
>>> 
>>> On fabric, Stan's number one point was that it must not leak in the
>>> rain, especially because of pooling on the roof panels.  That's why he
>>> wants a frame strong enough to create the tension to stretch the
>>> fabric.  He thought Sunbrella is heavier and more expensive than
>>> needed -- I truly don't know.  I do think we want it to be a light
>>> color to provide some reflective property -- blue would look nice but
>>> create an oven I think.  Sail cloth was raised as an option only so
>>> long as the roof panel is treated to be waterproof.  Whether sail
>>> cloth or nylon, the roof panel would need to be treated every few
>>> years I'd guess.  Does Sunbrella also need to be treated?  Is nylon
>>> available in ligher colors?
>>> 
>>> More food for thought.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2/4/06, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Dave,
>>>> 
>>>> Call it the K.I.S.S. approch - The BR should be repairable, adjustable by
>>>> the owner.  West stock parts are durable, returnable, available, and also a
>>>> bit pricey.  Do you see the Sunbrella logic?  I think sailcloth also could
>>>> become wetted and weep in a downpour.
>>>> 
>>>> You deserve special recognition as a coordinator and messenger on our
>>>> ideas.
>>>> Thanks, you have me a little fired up!
>>>> 
>>>> Art
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Feb 4, 2006 9:58 AM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boom Room Update Feb 3
>>>>> 
>>>>> Got it on the dimensions, and got your point on stock fittings.  Thanks,
>>>>> Art.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dave B.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/4/06, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With a furled main, the top of the boom shouldn't need much tailoring, it
>>>>>> it a straight line.  My sail remains attached to the boom, no furling, so
>>>>>> therefore some contour.  This slight variation causes no problem as I use
>>>>>> Sunbrella, which will shed water in any shape.  That is a questionable
>>>>>> point with ripstop, which normally needs to be kept stretched in order
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> moisture to roll off.  If the inside of a tent is touched it can weep,
>>>>>> therefore bring water into the tent - that also would be a problem.
>>>>>> Bottom line, don't lose sleep over contour.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The only reason for 5'6" width is to avoid a seam in the Sunbrella.  The
>>>>>> width can be greater, but most will want to have easy walking access onto
>>>>>> the deck.  The width I have used covers the cockpit well.  The 'stock'
>>>>>> parts have no lack of appeal.  The panels can be the same approach.  The
>>>>>> top 'roof' design is key.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any problems suggested are welcomed, as this is the only way to refine,
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> necessary.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Art
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Feb 3, 2006 10:28 PM
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Boom Room Update Feb 3
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Art, thanks.  If I'm reading this correctly, your approach would be to
>>>>>>> build a frame out of standard SS lengths and fittings.  Sounds doable,
>>>>>>> but I'd like to hear from others as to whether a more tailored design
>>>>>>> (i.e., some custom pieces to fit over the boom and create the best
>>>>>>> contour) would be worth the extra effort.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Is a 5' wide roof wide enough?  I would think that it needs to be as
>>>>>>> wide as the gunwales.  Or maybe I'm not understanding your dimensions.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Stan's thought on the side panels is that they would all zip together
>>>>>>> then snap on place.  If the sides are a perfect rectangle and the side
>>>>>>> panels are divided into thirds, then the side pieces would all be
>>>>>>> interchangeable.  But it was Stan's sense that this would be hard to
>>>>>>> achieve since there just aren't that many straight lines.  But either
>>>>>>> way, there is still some sewing involved.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Again, I'm trying to convey Stan's ideas.  I think he wants a premium
>>>>>>> quality boom room "system" that will offer flexibility in
>>>>>>> configuration, and be better than an assembly of stock parts.
>>>>>>> Question for the buyers is -- do we want good enough from stock, or
>>>>>>> custom designed with a little extra R22 appeal.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/3/06, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> With 7/8 SS from West figure $45. for a 6' length, which I use.  Prop.
>>>>>>>> higher cost, based on length, which could be as long as 20', fore and
>>>>>>>> aft on each of two sides, therefore 2 each.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> With 7/8 SS a cross member, probably 5.5' in length to 'spread' the two
>>>>>>>> other tubes, above.  If the fore and aft dimension is 6' or less, one
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the middle can do well due to the SS rigidity.  If F&A is greater than
>>>>>>>> 6', additional braces are suggested, therefore 1 each or more.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 7/8 SS connector, various, therefore 6 each at about $15.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sunbrella top material, if used, 60" width of desired color @ about
>>>>>>>> $25/yard,  8'+  for a 6' long top, providing 1' surplus flap necessary
>>>>>>>> for front and back.  Therefore 3 yards @ about $25.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Labor cost not that bad.  Storage, assembly, and disassembly quick and
>>>>>>>> simple.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There, you have a nice BR or Bimini top, lacking only a few lines to
>>>>>>>> tie
>>>>>>>> the four corners.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> See what I mean about putting together the BR for a very reasonable
>>>>>>>> cost?  We could make it more complicated and costly, but I can't
>>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>> why.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The side drapes are simpler still.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Feb 3, 2006 8:34 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Boom Room Update Feb 3
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Boom Room Project Update
>>>>>>>>> February 3, 2003
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'll try to summaze where I think we are:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 1.  Intellectual Property.  It's my proposal that we all assume we are
>>>>>>>>> working pro bono on a project for General Boats, and that whatever we
>>>>>>>>> create will turn into a GBI product for the Super Option List.  Stan
>>>>>>>>> will own all the IP.  He will price the product.  If he chooses to
>>>>>>>>> offer a discount to the boom room project participants, great.  If any
>>>>>>>>> of us chooses to lay out money to get a prototype built, we can work
>>>>>>>>> that out with the boss.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 2.  Basic Boom Room Design.  It sounds like we are converging on the
>>>>>>>>> key parameters as outlined, which are most simliar to Slim's boom room
>>>>>>>>> as designed by Stan.  Specifically, the boom room is not integrated
>>>>>>>>> with the Pop Top Enclosure; a roof panel is supported by the boom with
>>>>>>>>> the assistance of a rigid frame; side panels snap to gunwale inside
>>>>>>>>> rails and stays; front panel is forward of mast, aft of cabin hatches;
>>>>>>>>> interchangeable side panels allow flexible set up, with choices of
>>>>>>>>> solid, clear or screen panels.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 3.  One work stream is to lock onto best fabric(s).  Stan felt sail
>>>>>>>>> cloth would work, but is open to others.  He felt Sunbrella was
>>>>>>>>> heavier and more expensive than needed.  Rip-stop nylon has been
>>>>>>>>> suggested as well.  It seems that a next step would be to begin to
>>>>>>>>> collect prices on different materials.  Any thoughts on how to go
>>>>>>>>> about that?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 4.  Next work stream is the frame.  This is where Stan was never happy
>>>>>>>>> with his earlier efforts.  We have carbon fiber, aluminum, SS, and PVC
>>>>>>>>> as suggested options.  One aspect of this I haven't seen in the
>>>>>>>>> comments is the impact on visual design/aesthetics.  A metal frame can
>>>>>>>>> be fabricated with the necessary bends to create a rigid, sturdy but
>>>>>>>>> elegant design.  My gut feeling is that, with the highly evolved
>>>>>>>>> design solutions in the R-22, we should create a boom room frame that
>>>>>>>>> will enhance the lines of the boat -- even if it is just for camping
>>>>>>>>> at night.  Also, Stan's "yoke" idea (were the JPEGs of that attached
>>>>>>>>> in my post yesterday?) seems brilliant in a Spitzerian way.  The
>>>>>>>>> downward pressure from the side panels under tension will clamp the
>>>>>>>>> yoke to the boom and secure the roof.  We'll only get that kind of
>>>>>>>>> elegant solution with metal, I think.  Or with metal fittings and
>>>>>>>>> carbon/plastic rods.  If all metal, whether aluminum or SS is probably
>>>>>>>>> an economic decision.  I think I'd try for SS to avoid pitting even if
>>>>>>>>> more money and to have stronger fittings vs. aluminum corners.  For
>>>>>>>>> next steps here, I'd suggest we keep this debate going for a bit and
>>>>>>>>> then begin to explore vendors.  Does anyone have an idea for a metal
>>>>>>>>> bender that could work on a prototype?  Comments on the benefits of
>>>>>>>>> metal vs. plastic vs. carbon?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 5.  It seems that we need to get the frame worked out before we go to
>>>>>>>>> detailed specs and measurements on the fabric.  Though fabric
>>>>>>>>> selection/weights might influence frame selection, we're probably OK
>>>>>>>>> to assume lightest weight fabrics possible.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Comments?  Please let me know if I've not captured all the comments
>>>>>>>>> accurately.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dave Bradley
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> David Bradley
>>>>>>> 203.253.9973
>>>>>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Bradley
>>>>> 203.253.9973
>>>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> David Bradley
>>> 203.253.9973
>>> dwbrad at gmail.com
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

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