Elle,
You are correct, communities change. People come and people go, but this  
list has a charter. It's kinda like the constitution. It's what we live by on da  
list. If you find someone's actions or posts offensive, do something about 
it.  Contact them directly, off the list and deal with the problem, don't try to 
fix  what ain't broken. Reread the charter so that you understand what it 
says and  what was meant when it was adopted many, many years ago. The founding 
fathers  were brilliant people.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 7/23/2008 8:36:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
watermusic38 at yahoo.com writes:

Rummy,

Communities change and grow in directions influenced by  their deinzens.

The tone of 'da list' has become quite more abrasive  and bullying than it 
was before I joined...& i lurked for quite a long  time before my first posting.

Yahoo has an integrated address book w/in  its mail program...I occasionally 
go thru it & delete duplicate  addresses...I did this address the other 
day....and was really surprised at  the number of names that were frequent posters 
back when I was lurking but  haven't been heard of for quite a while.

If this list doesn't grow, it  will collapse under the weight of the bully 
rhetoric. It is my opinion that  the tone has changed BECAUSE there is very 
little new input...the newbies  don't  stick around for civility to take over. 
They have no idea that it  is any different than the snapshot they see.

There will be no fresh  ideas w/o fresh faces.....and once you guys finish 
beating up on each  other...what will be left?  Wait for another election to 
start over  again? That'll get old for you guys, too.

The list does sit dormant now  for a day or so...often after an acrimonious 
beating......

The founding  fellas of 'da list' are 'way past the need for sailing advice 
other than the  "Hey, wouldja lookit this" type posting.....it's the newbies 
that keep you  rethinking technique and methods w/their questions....

So either 'da  list' will become  a closed community of a few who beat up on 
each other  for sport, or it will be an 'interesting' place to hang around for 
info on  sailing & whatever floats  by.

Whatever....

elle


We can't change the angle of  the wind....but we can adjust our sails.

1992 Rhodes 22    Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)


--- On Wed,  7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:

>  From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 7:59  AM
> Arthur,
> As has been stated previously, this list was  started
> because we wanted to  be 
> able to post pictures  and not have to worry about a sailnet
> moderator  
>  stepping in to control our conversations. With all due
> respect, you  are very new  to 
> all of us and I don't believe that you are in  a
> position to decide where the  
> list should go or how it  should be run. This is a
> community. We have a 
> charter   and when someone steps over the bounds of the
> charter, we police  ourselves. 
> Yes,  I am concerned that a poll from 268 non  participating
> people would lead 
> us in a  direction the  original founders and participating
> members of this 
> list  don't  want it to go in. We have lost a few people
> over the  years, but the 
> list is  still strong with a large knowledge base  and we
> will continue this 
> way for many  years. Read the  charter. Understand it and if
> you think someone 
> has stepped  over  the line, call them on it, but leave this
> site the way it  is.
>  
> Rummy said that.
>  
>   
> In a message dated 7/22/2008 9:54:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight
>  Time,  
> czerwonky at earthlink.net writes:
> 
>  John,
> 
> I have no objection to having a poll.  Rummy, are  you 
> worried what results 
> will show?  Stan has sent  potential skippers to the  list
> as a promotional 
>  witness, I have some doubts about whether it helps his 
> efforts.   I think the 
> prime objective for those subscribing to the list   is
> building their sailing 
> knowledge and cohesion in the  fleet.  The often  exagerated
> and pointless emotion 
>  and language may provide a momentary email  thrill, but
> face it  folks, there 
> are better ways to get the points  across.   
> 
> A poll could have distorted for sure, but not only   because
> of the votes of 
> new skippers who are sick of  political posturing, but  due
> to the loss over 
> time of  excellent former members who were sick of the 
> bickering and were  labeled 
> as internet police and the like, just for  expressing  their
> feelings 
> honestly.  Numerous newbies and veterans  have  been treated
> in this way.
> 
> It has been  suggested that the Rhodes 22  sailing advocates
> post their  
> messages on Sailnet or some other forum instead  of this
>  one.  I suggest that 
> Rhodes22.org is by definition a  Rhodes22  sailing site, and
> that if someone really 
> wants  to post political swill, they  should have no right
> to soil the  Rhodes22 
> skipper list or the Rhodes 22  name.  Maybe a  more
> appropriate site should be 
> their destination when   they lose control.  
> 
> Nothing wrong with meaningful  political  insights, but in
> the tone and manner 
> I have  seen, it is just way  overdone.
> 
> I refer back to  sometimes comments about an unnamed member
> of  our fleet -  
> those who cannot get their point across in a civil way are 
>  demonstrating their 
> 'mounting problems' to everyone now or later  who
> reads  about our Rhodes 22 
> boat and fleet.   Some legacy we help provide to  Stan.  As
> he has gotten into  
> some of the dialogue, I have not seen a need  by him to  be
> foul in doing so.  
> Maybe we could follow his   example...
> 
> Art
> 
> -----Original  Message-----
> >From:  R22RumRunner at aol.com
> >Sent:  Jul 22, 2008 7:04 PM
> >To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>  >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information  gathering
>  >
> >John,
> >Taking a poll is a lousy idea. You  are  giving people
> that have never and  
>  >probably will never add  anything to the list decide
> what  direction we go 
> in. I  
> >think if  anyone wanted  to, they could certainly
> express their opinions 
> freely   
> >on  da list. I think the majority of the people like  it
> just  fine. Everyone 
> >knows  how to use the  delete button. There are  times
> when I don't have the 
>  time 
> >to read  all posts, but will  sift through the  ones
> that are sailing related.
> > 
> >Rummy
>  >  
> > 
> >In a message dated 7/22/2008 4:58:17  P.M. Eastern
> Daylight  Time,  
>  >jlock at relevantarts.com writes:
> >
> >At   04:25  PM 7/22/2008 -0400, Michael D. Weisner
> wrote:
>  >>I wonder  if we can try to  solve the problem a bit
>  differently than  
> chasing
> >>otherwise good  folks  off the list.  Maybe John 
> can set up a third
>  >>distribution mode in  addition to 
> "Non-digested" and  "Digested",
> something
> >>called "Sailing    limited" which would
> only receive items of sailing 
>  interest.
> >>Maybe  we  could use a prefixed subject  line
> modifier such as "Sailing:"  to
> >>direct   these posts to the limited list as well as
> the  general  list.
> >>Forgetting  to add the subject line modifier   will
> only affect those who do
> >>not wish  to be on  "da list",  not the
> rest of us.  John, is such a    thing
> >>doable?
> >
> >Doable, but probably  not  practical.  Besides  the
> programing involved,  
> >it depends on  the poster remembering to place the 
>  magic word in the 
> >subject  line.  We all know how well  THAT  works!
> >
> >Seriously...  before we can  discuss making any changes,
> we need  more  
>  >information.  Right now we have no sense of what the 
>  majority  
> >wants.  We've heard from the usual suspects  on 
> what they want, but  
> >there are 268 list members;  most of whom  have not
> stated a  preference.
>  >
> >We might assume that  everything is hunky-dory,  since
> we  don't have 
> >268  complaints.  But  that may be because no good 
> alternatives have  
> >been  proposed.
> >
> >I'd like to suggest a simple    poll.  I can whip
> one up in a few 
> >minutes and post  the URL to  the  list.  We'll run
> it for a couple  
> >weeks and see what  kind of stats  come out.   Might be
> interesting to 
> >have some  facts to kick  around...  yes?
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
>  >John  Lock
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >s/v Pandion  -  '79 Rhodes  22
> >Lake Sinclair,   GA
>  >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
>  >__________________________________________________
>  >To   subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>  mailing list go to   
>  >http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  >__________________________________________________
> >
>  >
> >
> >
> >
>  >**************Get  fantasy football with free live
> scoring.  Sign up for 
> >FanHouse Fantasy  Football today.     
>  >(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
>  >__________________________________________________
> >To   subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go  to  
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  >__________________________________________________
> 
>  __________________________________________________
> To   subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go  to  
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  __________________________________________________
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> **************Get fantasy football with free live  scoring.
> Sign up for 
> FanHouse Fantasy Football today.   
>  (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
>  __________________________________________________
> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  __________________________________________________



__________________________________________________
To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________





**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for 
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.      
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)