Elle,
This list is not my sandbox. I'm just trying to get you to understand that  
we all are responsible for the content of the list. If something is out of line 
 or objectionable or inflammatory, it's up to ALL of us to correct the 
behavior  or leave it alone. Pressure from list members is going to have more of an 
effect  than one person leaving the list because they didn't like something 
someone  said.
Belly up to the bar boys and girls, the drinks are on me.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 7/23/2008 11:22:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
watermusic38 at yahoo.com writes:

OK, Mr.  Rummmmmmmy ;^), I did just that..just in case i was forgetting or  
unremembering something...

Some (what I thought) were more pertinent  points...and I quote:

1. * The  level of discussion does not have  to be fit for a child, but 
some good taste  is expected.   (Hmmmm..kinda lost that for a while....)

2. Netiquette: Posts to the  group are expected to be considerate of  other 
readers. Personal  abuse, flames, and obscenities are  *not* 
appreciated; but we are  sailors....... (yea...but we're not down at the 
level of powerboaters. Not a  slur..just an observation based on working for three 
years at a very busy  marina)

3. There is a high level of chitchat on the list, and what you  might think 
is  insulting to a group or region might only be people  kidding each other 
after  knowing them for years. (if we can't tell  kidding from nasty & insult 
then it must be nasty & insult.)

3.  As in any bar, the subjects of politics and religion  can lead to heated  
augments and bar fights. These might be best  avoided. 

Again,  Rummy, I know this is your sandbox & i'm just a guest....I'm not 
trying to  run things or be a schoolmarm trying to stifle free speech...more like 
a mom  who feels bad whenher kids re fighting 7 can't get'em to stop.

Again,  what do  'nasty , overbearing and crude' add to any discussiion? We 
know  you're guys...;^)

elle



We can't change the angle of the  wind....but we can adjust our sails.

1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc  '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)


--- On Wed,  7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:

>  From: R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] Information gathering
> To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 10:50  AM
> Elle,
> You are correct, communities change. People come and  people
> go, but this  
> list has a charter. It's kinda like  the constitution.
> It's what we live by on da  
> list. If  you find someone's actions or posts offensive,
> do something about  
> it.  Contact them directly, off the list and deal with  the
> problem, don't try to 
> fix  what ain't broken. Reread  the charter so that you
> understand what it 
> says and   what was meant when it was adopted many, many
> years ago. The founding  
> fathers  were brilliant people.
>  
>  Rummy
>  
>  
> In a message dated 7/23/2008  8:36:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,  
>  watermusic38 at yahoo.com writes:
> 
> Rummy,
> 
>  Communities change and grow in directions influenced by 
> their  deinzens.
> 
> The tone of 'da list' has become quite more
>  abrasive  and bullying than it 
> was before I joined...& i  lurked for quite a long  time
> before my first posting.
>  
> Yahoo has an integrated address book w/in  its mail
>  program...I occasionally 
> go thru it & delete duplicate   addresses...I did this
> address the other 
> day....and was  really surprised at  the number of names
> that were frequent  posters 
> back when I was lurking but  haven't been heard of  for
> quite a while.
> 
> If this list doesn't grow,  it  will collapse under the
> weight of the bully 
>  rhetoric. It is my opinion that  the tone has changed
> BECAUSE  there is very 
> little new input...the newbies  don't  stick  around for
> civility to take over. 
> They have no idea that  it  is any different than the
> snapshot they see.
> 
>  There will be no fresh  ideas w/o fresh faces.....and once
> you  guys finish 
> beating up on each  other...what will be left?   Wait for
> another election to 
> start over  again? That'll  get old for you guys, too.
> 
> The list does sit dormant  now  for a day or so...often
> after an acrimonious 
>  beating......
> 
> The founding  fellas of 'da list' are 'way  past
> the need for sailing advice 
> other than the  "Hey,  wouldja lookit this" type
> posting.....it's the newbies 
> that  keep you  rethinking technique and methods w/their
>  questions....
> 
> So either 'da  list' will become  a  closed
> community of a few who beat up on 
> each other  for  sport, or it will be an
> 'interesting' place to hang around for  
> info on  sailing & whatever floats  by.
>  
> Whatever....
> 
> elle
> 
> 
> We can't  change the angle of  the wind....but we can
> adjust our  sails.
> 
> 1992 Rhodes 22    Recyc '06   "WaterMusic"  
> (Lady in Red)
> 
> 
> --- On  Wed,  7/23/08, R22RumRunner at aol.com
> <R22RumRunner at aol.com>  wrote:
> 
> >  From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
>  <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list]  Information gathering
> > To:   rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008,  7:59  AM
> > Arthur,
> > As has been stated previously,  this list was  started
> > because we wanted to  be  
> > able to post pictures  and not have to worry about  a
> sailnet
> > moderator  
> >  stepping in  to control our conversations. With all
> due
> > respect,  you  are very new  to 
> > all of us and I don't believe  that you are in  a
> > position to decide where the   
> > list should go or how it  should be run. This is a
>  > community. We have a 
> > charter   and when someone  steps over the bounds of
> the
> > charter, we police   ourselves. 
> > Yes,  I am concerned that a poll from 268 non  
> participating
> > people would lead 
> > us in  a  direction the  original founders and
>  participating
> > members of this 
> > list   don't  want it to go in. We have lost a few
> people
> >  over the  years, but the 
> > list is  still strong with a  large knowledge base  and
> we
> > will continue this  
> > way for many  years. Read the  charter. Understand  it
> and if
> > you think someone 
> > has  stepped  over  the line, call them on it, but
> leave  this
> > site the way it  is.
> >  
> >  Rummy said that.
> >  
> >   
> > In  a message dated 7/22/2008 9:54:41 P.M. Eastern
> Daylight
>  >  Time,  
> > czerwonky at earthlink.net writes:
>  > 
> >  John,
> > 
> > I have no objection  to having a poll.  Rummy, are  you
> 
> > worried  what results 
> > will show?  Stan has sent  potential  skippers to the 
> list
> > as a promotional 
>  >  witness, I have some doubts about whether it helps
> his  
> > efforts.   I think the 
> > prime objective  for those subscribing to the list   is
> > building their  sailing 
> > knowledge and cohesion in the  fleet.  The  often 
> exagerated
> > and pointless emotion 
>  >  and language may provide a momentary email  thrill,
>  but
> > face it  folks, there 
> > are better ways to  get the points  across.   
> > 
> > A poll  could have distorted for sure, but not only  
> because
>  > of the votes of 
> > new skippers who are sick of   political posturing, but
>  due
> > to the loss over  
> > time of  excellent former members who were sick of  the
> 
> > bickering and were  labeled 
> > as  internet police and the like, just for  expressing 
> their
>  > feelings 
> > honestly.  Numerous newbies and  veterans  have  been
> treated
> > in this  way.
> > 
> > It has been  suggested that the Rhodes  22  sailing
> advocates
> > post their  
> >  messages on Sailnet or some other forum instead  of
> this
>  >  one.  I suggest that 
> > Rhodes22.org is by  definition a  Rhodes22  sailing
> site, and
> > that  if someone really 
> > wants  to post political swill,  they  should have no
> right
> > to soil the   Rhodes22 
> > skipper list or the Rhodes 22  name.  Maybe  a  more
> > appropriate site should be 
> > their  destination when   they lose control.  
> > 
>  > Nothing wrong with meaningful  political  insights,
> but  in
> > the tone and manner 
> > I have  seen, it is  just way  overdone.
> > 
> > I refer back to   sometimes comments about an unnamed
> member
> > of  our  fleet -  
> > those who cannot get their point across in a civil  way
> are 
> >  demonstrating their 
> >  'mounting problems' to everyone now or later 
> who
> >  reads  about our Rhodes 22 
> > boat and fleet.   Some  legacy we help provide to 
> Stan.  As
> > he has gotten  into  
> > some of the dialogue, I have not seen a need  by  him
> to  be
> > foul in doing so.  
> >  Maybe we could follow his   example...
> > 
> >  Art
> > 
> > -----Original  Message-----
> >  >From:  R22RumRunner at aol.com
> > >Sent:  Jul 22, 2008  7:04 PM
> > >To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>  >  >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Information 
>  gathering
> >  >
> > >John,
> >  >Taking a poll is a lousy idea. You  are  giving
>  people
> > that have never and  
> >  >probably  will never add  anything to the list
> decide
> >  what  direction we go 
> > in. I  
> > >think  if  anyone wanted  to, they could certainly
> > express  their opinions 
> > freely   
> > >on  da  list. I think the majority of the people
> like  it
> >  just  fine. Everyone 
> > >knows  how to use the   delete button. There are 
> times
> > when I don't have the  
> >  time 
> > >to read  all posts, but  will  sift through the 
> ones
> > that are sailing  related.
> > > 
> > >Rummy
> >   >  
> > > 
> > >In a message dated 7/22/2008  4:58:17  P.M. Eastern
> > Daylight  Time,  
>  >  >jlock at relevantarts.com writes:
> > >
> >  >At   04:25  PM 7/22/2008 -0400, Michael D. Weisner
>  > wrote:
> >  >>I wonder  if we can try to   solve the problem
> a bit
> >  differently than   
> > chasing
> > >>otherwise good  folks   off the list.  Maybe
> John 
> > can set up a  third
> >  >>distribution mode in  addition to  
> > "Non-digested" and  "Digested",
> >  something
> > >>called "Sailing    limited"  which
> would
> > only receive items of sailing 
>  >  interest.
> > >>Maybe  we  could use a  prefixed subject  line
> > modifier such as "Sailing:"   to
> > >>direct   these posts to the limited list  as
> well as
> > the  general  list.
> >  >>Forgetting  to add the subject line modifier  
>  will
> > only affect those who do
> > >>not wish   to be on  "da list",  not
> the
> > rest of us.   John, is such a    thing
> > >>doable?
> >  >
> > >Doable, but probably  not  practical.   Besides 
> the
> > programing involved,  
> >  >it depends on  the poster remembering to place the
> 
>  >  magic word in the 
> > >subject  line.  We  all know how well  THAT  works!
> > >
> >  >Seriously...  before we can  discuss making any
>  changes,
> > we need  more  
> >   >information.  Right now we have no sense of what
> the 
>  >  majority  
> > >wants.  We've heard from the  usual suspects 
> on 
> > what they want, but  
>  > >there are 268 list members;  most of whom  have
>  not
> > stated a  preference.
> >  >
>  > >We might assume that  everything is hunky-dory, 
>  since
> > we  don't have 
> > >268   complaints.  But  that may be because no good
> 
> >  alternatives have  
> > >been  proposed.
> >  >
> > >I'd like to suggest a simple    poll.  I  can
> whip
> > one up in a few 
> > >minutes and  post  the URL to  the  list. 
> We'll run
> > it  for a couple  
> > >weeks and see what  kind of  stats  come out.  
> Might be
> > interesting to  
> > >have some  facts to kick  around...   yes?
> > >
> > >Cheers!
> > >
>  >  >John  Lock
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  > >s/v Pandion  -  '79 Rhodes  22
> > >Lake  Sinclair,   GA
> >  >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  > >
> > 
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> > >
> > >
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