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Comment to Philidelphia Lawyer about medical costs
2008-10-30; 07:32:41 EDT
Member Since
2002-09-17
Posts: 4946
Herb, I saw my attorney the other day and he actually had his hands in his own pockets. Rummy.........my father was an attorney. :) In a message dated 10/29/2008 9:08:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hparsons at parsonsys.com writes: See, I TOLE you that the good ones come from lawyers. My two favorites: What's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer? One's a slimy bottom-dwelling scum-sucker. The other is a fish. What do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the lake? A good start. Benjamin Cittadino wrote:See the original archive post
> So why does New Jersey have so many toxic waste sites and California so many > lawyers? > > > > New Jersey got first choice. > > > > > Believe me, I've heard 'em all. > > > > Ben C. > > > > > hparsons wrote: > >> But but but Brad, Lawyer jokes are FUN. Most of the good ones that I >> know came from lawyers! The guys my wife used to work for had a >> collection of them on the table in their lobby. >> >> On tort reform - Here's my "Herb amendments" to your suggestions. >> >> 1) Reverse damages are always allowed, not just in < 100k >> 1a) The above are payable by the attorney if he took the case on >> consignment, to the same percentage at which he took the case. That >> would end the "let's roll the dice and see what happens" contingency cases >> 1b) All of the above applies to class action suits as well. >> >> 2) Do away with the "deep pockets" rules. If your company has >> 10,000,000,000 in assets, and the party that was 90% at fault is >> "judgement proof", because he owes more than he's worth, you should >> STILL only be expected to pay only 10% of the judgment. >> >> >> >> Brad Haslett wrote: >> >>> Herb, >>> >>> I look forward to the debate with Ben on this issue after the >>> election. Actually, the same 'cure' for health-care will work for >>> unnecessary lawsuits. Getting sick and getting hurt "happens". The >>> solution to health care is to tame the extreme ends of the bell curve. >>> Here's my idea for runaway legal suits. First, if what you have to >>> sue over isn't worth at least $100,000, then you have to pay for the >>> other parties defense if you lose plus their time and aggravation. >>> That would eliminate crap like what we just went through with our dump >>> truck loss last year. Second, if you're worth more than 2 million, >>> the folks left behind will be just fine - set a limit on what a >>> person's injuries or "worth" is, no matter how crass or cold that may >>> sound. >>> >>> Odd as it may seem, I'll sit out the lawyer jokes and the "Ben >>> bashing". He's like a lot of my lawyer friends - good guys, " just >>> can't see the forest for the trees". >>> >>> Brad >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Ben, >>>> >>>> Didn't you just tell us a few posts back that "Punitive damages are a >>>> non-issue. They are almost never awarded, and when they are a Judge >>>> usually minimizes them (by remitting the jury's verdict)." >>>> >>>> If that's the case, then limiting something that is almost never >>>> awarded, and usually minimized when they are, would hardly seem to be a >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> Can we start telling lawyer jokes now? >>>> >>>> >>>> Ben Cittadino wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Tootle; >>>>> >>>>> I'll debate tort reform with you after the election if you really want >>>>> to, >>>>> but for now be satisfied with the following article which tells the >>>>> "other >>>>> side" of the story. Anyone who reads your "position paper" may want a >>>>> quick >>>>> answer. I don't agree with everything in this article but it's close >>>>> enough >>>>> to give people the idea. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Who Wants To Become a Medical Malpractice Millionaire? >>>>> The Phony Tort Reform Crisis >>>>> >>>>> by Ted Rall >>>>> >>>>> On a recent episode of "Fear Factor," two flat-tummied babes in hot >>>>> pants >>>>> and jogging bras agreed to be locked into a glass coffin with 500 >>>>> panicky >>>>> tarantulas--"we're adding crickets to keep the tarantulas active," the >>>>> show's host explained helpfully--as their boyfriends sawed a metal bar >>>>> to >>>>> free them. At stake in this ordeal was the chance to proceed to the >>>>> next of >>>>> eight elimination rounds, the survivors of which were promised one >>>>> million >>>>> dollars. It's amazing what people will do for money. >>>>> >>>>> Still, there are limits. How much money would you require in order to >>>>> consent to having your leg chopped off? A finger? Would you agree to be >>>>> blinded for $1 million? $10 million? Would you let yourself be killed? >>>>> After >>>>> all, you're going to die anyway. Wouldn't passing away painlessly, >>>>> under >>>>> anesthesia, be worth the price if you believed that your family would >>>>> become >>>>> wealthy as a result? >>>>> >>>>> If you're rational, you think these are crazy questions. Good health, a >>>>> sound body, life itself are all priceless. No amount of money can >>>>> compensate >>>>> you for unnecessarily losing a function or body part. And that's what >>>>> the >>>>> Bush Administration and its medical industry allies think too. Under >>>>> their >>>>> proposed "tort reform" legislation, you'll receive virtually nothing if >>>>> you're butchered by a careless doctor. >>>>> >>>>> A jury can award two classes of damages to a victim of medical >>>>> malpractice: >>>>> economic and punitive. Economic damages compensate a patient for future >>>>> wages lost as a result of a doctor's mistake; punitive awards account >>>>> for >>>>> other victims who may not have sued, They also send a warning to other >>>>> doctors not to behave negligently. Bush wants to slap a limit on >>>>> economic >>>>> damages, but with the average household earning about $40,000 a year, >>>>> lost >>>>> wages tend to be relatively low. The current proposal focuses on the >>>>> punitive component because it comprises the biggest part of large >>>>> damage >>>>> awards. Bush wants to limit punitive damages to $250,000. >>>>> >>>>> "This liability system, I'm telling you, is out of control," Bush says. >>>>> "Because the system is so unpredictable, there is a constant risk of >>>>> being >>>>> hit by a massive jury award. It's costly for the doctors, it's costly >>>>> for >>>>> small businesses, it's costly for hospitals, it is really costly for >>>>> patients." >>>>> >>>>> First it's Iraq. Then Social Security. Now more lies to create a phony >>>>> torts >>>>> crisis. >>>>> >>>>> The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office finds that the costs >>>>> associated >>>>> with malpractice--buying insurance and paying out damage >>>>> awards--amounts to >>>>> less than two percent of America's skyrocketing healthcare expenses. >>>>> "Even a >>>>> reduction of 25 percent to 30 percent in malpractice costs would lower >>>>> healthcare costs by only about 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent, and the >>>>> likely >>>>> effect on health insurance premiums would be comparably small," the CBO >>>>> determined. That's chump change--a mere five bucks out of the $900 I >>>>> blow on >>>>> health insurance each month. >>>>> >>>>> Of course, there's an easy way for a doctor to avoid malpractice suits: >>>>> do a >>>>> good job. Do no harm and you probably won't get sued. And the courts >>>>> are >>>>> good at throwing out frivolous lawsuits before they become expensive. >>>>> >>>>> Contrary to corporate belief, patients don't undergo surgery in hope of >>>>> striking it rich as the result of some medical mishap. And victims >>>>> rarely >>>>> sue. Those who do are desperate for justice and money to cover the >>>>> additional medical care necessitated by their doctor's incompetence. >>>>> >>>>> Consider, for example, the case of Yvonne Kimura, a 49-year-old >>>>> pharmacist >>>>> from Fresno. Surgeons at the University of California, San Francisco >>>>> Medical >>>>> Center operated on her to remove a benign tumor in her leg. At one >>>>> point in >>>>> the operation they decided to cut a nerve without bothering to call in >>>>> a >>>>> specialist to determine whether it was a motor or sensory nerve. Big >>>>> mistake. She can no longer move or feel her foot. She'll wear a brace >>>>> the >>>>> rest of her life. A San Francisco jury awarded her $3.3 million in >>>>> punitive >>>>> plus $286,000 in future wage loss and medical expenses. Would you trade >>>>> places with Ms. Kimura, even for $3.6 million? >>>>> >>>>> Like 26 other states, however, California already caps punitive damages >>>>> at >>>>> $250,000. Mr. Kimura collected just $536,000, minus legal fees that may >>>>> have >>>>> run as high as one third. To Republicans who believe she got what she >>>>> deserves: get in touch. I'll gladly smash one of your legs with a >>>>> sledgehammer for half a million bucks, but I get the TV rights. >>>>> Operators >>>>> are standing by. >>>>> >>>>> Let's look at another example of "out of control" malpractice >>>>> litigation. A >>>>> Durham, North Carolina woman who suffered a "horror show of medical >>>>> complications after her wisdom teeth were pulled" set the 2002 state >>>>> record >>>>> for a jury award: $5 million. Her oral surgeon's slowness and >>>>> clumsiness >>>>> caused her "nerve damage, a bad jaw joint and excruciating pain." She >>>>> required pain medicine so powerful that it caused her an impacted bowel >>>>> ailment, requiring the removal of two-thirds of her colon, a large part >>>>> of >>>>> her small intestine and her reproductive organs. $5 million can't >>>>> compensate >>>>> for the fact that she will never bear children. $500 million wouldn't >>>>> get >>>>> close, but George W. Bush thinks $250,000 is more than sufficient. >>>>> >>>>> Or how about this one: On November 9, 1992, Maryland resident Valerie >>>>> Shea >>>>> was (correctly) given an emergency Caesarean section at Anne Arundel >>>>> Medical >>>>> Center. But after her son Patrick was delivered, he was still suffering >>>>> from >>>>> fetal tachycardia, a condition which made his heart race at over 200 >>>>> beats >>>>> per minute and turned his skin blue. He was suffocating. Her >>>>> pediatrician >>>>> placed an oxygen mask on Patrick and put ice on his cheeks to revive >>>>> him, >>>>> but mistakenly waited 56 minutes before sticking a breathing tube down >>>>> his >>>>> throat. Finally, 80 minutes after the birth, the doctor took a nurse's >>>>> suggestion and administered the heart medication adenosine. Patrick >>>>> lived. >>>>> But he suffered severe brain injuries during that crucial hour and 20 >>>>> minutes. With an IQ of 49, he is in special education and requires >>>>> 24-hour >>>>> care. >>>>> >>>>> When he was nine years old, Patrick's parents sued the pediatrician and >>>>> hospital after a nurse who had witnessed the birth finally stepped >>>>> forward >>>>> and told them what had happened. A jury handed them $1.4 million for >>>>> the >>>>> child's future medical expenses, $3.5 million for his lost earning >>>>> capacity >>>>> and $1.5 million for pain and suffering. >>>>> >>>>> "Every day, we worried, what will happen to him when we're gone," >>>>> Patrick's >>>>> mom said after the verdict. "Now we don't have to worry." Seems like a >>>>> fair >>>>> use of the insurance company's $6.4 million, not to mention my five >>>>> bucks." >>>>> >>>>> BEN C. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tootle wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "Health insurance costs as well as physician's malpractice premiums >>>>>> have >>>>>> NOTHING to do with lawsuits, and everything to do with insurance >>>>>> company >>>>>> mismanagement, poor investments, and the increase in healthcare needs >>>>>> caused by malpractice." >>>>>> >>>>>> This is the biggest lie since Lenin and crock of shit believed in. It >>>>>> has >>>>>> everything to do with costs of medical care. >>>>>> >>>>>> I spent 15 years working in a hospital. I functioned as physicians >>>>>> extra >>>>>> hands. It was a charity hospital and as such was shielded by South >>>>>> Carolina to maximum tort awards for negligence. >>>>>> >>>>>> Medicine is an 'Art'. A Physician uses his education and experience >>>>>> to >>>>>> make medical judgments. Occasionally there are screw ups. Some of >>>>>> these >>>>>> screw ups result in severe injury and death. Because of the total >>>>>> numbers >>>>>> of hospital procedures involved, these screw ups happen daily. The >>>>>> reasons are many. >>>>>> >>>>>> The biggest reason is so called 'human error'. And this is where law >>>>>> suits arise. And tort lawyers jump on these instances like hyenas on >>>>>> a >>>>>> dead zebra. The costs of defending Hospitals, Medical Clinics, >>>>>> Doctors >>>>>> and other medical personal are outrageous. These costs are thru >>>>>> putted to >>>>>> the patients, all the patients. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I have time, or somewhere way back in the archives, I have >>>>>> answered >>>>>> the question as to why 'mistakes' occur. For this post I will say the >>>>>> biggest reason why mistakes occur is the physical impossibility of >>>>>> providing 100% infallible medical care. >>>>>> >>>>>> The impossibility occurs because economic limitations. Economic >>>>>> resources, >>>>>> sometimes called 'wealth' are not unlimited. Because wealth is finite >>>>>> is >>>>>> the reason why 'Marxism' fails. >>>>>> >>>>>> Wealth is created by man working. It is the value of his efforts. It >>>>>> is >>>>>> not created my mandate of the Government. If a person gets to keep >>>>>> the >>>>>> results of his efforts, he works more, harder. If he gets his efforts >>>>>> confiscated then why work? >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a famous story that Ronald Reagan oft told. It is important >>>>>> for >>>>>> intellectuals that seek to 'spread the wealth' need to comprehend yet >>>>>> fail >>>>>> to. >>>>>> >>>>>> Read and attempt to understand: >>>>>> >>>>>> Red Hen >>>>>> >>>>>> A modern day little red hen may not sound like or appear to be a >>>>>> quotable >>>>>> authority on economics but then some authorities aren't worth quoting. >>>>>> >>>>>> About a year ago I imposed a little poetry on you. It was called "The >>>>>> Incredible Bread Machine" and made a lot of sense with reference to >>>>>> matters economic. You didn't object too much so having gotten away >>>>>> with it >>>>>> once I'm going to try again. This is a little treatise on basic >>>>>> economics >>>>>> called "The Modern little Red Hen." >>>>>> >>>>>> Once upon a time there was a little red hen who scratched about the >>>>>> barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat. She called her >>>>>> neighbors and said 'If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to >>>>>> eat. >>>>>> Who will help me plant it?' >>>>>> >>>>>> "Not I, " said the cow. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Not I," said the duck. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Not I," said the pig. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Not I," said the goose. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Then I will," said the little red hen. And she did. The wheat grew >>>>>> tall >>>>>> and ripened into golden grain. "Who will help me reap my wheat?" asked >>>>>> the >>>>>> little red hen. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Not I," said the duck. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Out of my classification," said the pig. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'd lose my seniority," said the cow. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'd lose my unemployment compensation," said the goose. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Then I will," said the little red hen, and she did. >>>>>> >>>>>> At last the time came to bake the bread. "Who will help me bake >>>>>> bread?" >>>>>> asked the little red hen. >>>>>> >>>>>> "That would be overtime for me," said the cow. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'd lose my welfare benefits," said the duck. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'm a dropout and never learned how," said the pig. >>>>>> >>>>>> "If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination," said the goose. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Then I will," said the little red hen. >>>>>> >>>>>> She baked five loaves and held them up for the neighbors to see. >>>>>> >>>>>> They all wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little >>>>>> red >>>>>> hen said, "No, I can eat the five loaves myself." >>>>>> >>>>>> "Excess profits," cried the cow. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Capitalist leech," screamed the duck. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I demand equal rights," yelled the goose. >>>>>> >>>>>> And the pig just grunted. >>>>>> >>>>>> And they painted "unfair" picket signs and marched round and around >>>>>> the >>>>>> little red hen shouting obscenities. >>>>>> >>>>>> When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, "You >>>>>> must >>>>>> not be greedy." >>>>>> >>>>>> "But I earned the bread," said the little red hen. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Exactly," said the agent. "That's the wonderful free enterprise >>>>>> system. >>>>>> Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our >>>>>> modern >>>>>> government regulations productive workers must divide their products >>>>>> with >>>>>> the idle." >>>>>> >>>>>> And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who >>>>>> smiled and clucked, "I am grateful, I am grateful." But her neighbors >>>>>> wondered why she never again baked any more bread. >>>>>> >>>>>> From Ronald Reagan... Reagan In His Own Voice (Audio book/download) ^ >>>>>> | >>>>>> November 1976 | Ronald Reagan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> While this story is called 'Red Hen', there is an analogus story about >>>>>> a >>>>>> baker and loaves of bread. >>>>>> >>>>>> This story explains the 'Ukrainian Holodomor'. Luckly my Grandparents >>>>>> were here not there. Thru relatives and friends, I got the story and >>>>>> the >>>>>> reason it occurred. The reason can be explained by 'Marxism' and >>>>>> 'Government Control'. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ed K >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> __________________________________________________ >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list >>>> __________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list >>> __________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> __________________________________________________ >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list >> __________________________________________________ >> >> >> > > __________________________________________________ To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list __________________________________________________ **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. 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