Dear Kettle,

>From pot: Probably the worst thing I have said about the current president  
is that he's the dumbest SOB that has ever held this office. I stand by that  
statement. I am sure history will prove me correct. It is my opinion and I am  
allowed to have one....as long as my wife tells me I can.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 11/23/2008 12:15:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
flybrad at gmail.com writes:

Rummy,

Fair?  LOL!

There's few things fair in  politics but we always hear about
"fairness".  Axlerod was on Fox News  this morning saying the tax-hike
for the "rich" will be delayed.  Now  that's smart economics but it
will be another huge disappointment to the  far lefties who thought
they were electing a saint. Even in todays post you  use the term
"farce" which is much kinder than some of the other things  you've said
in the past eight years.  I've been a helluva lot more  accepting of
Obama and wishing him success than you ever were  W.

Pot, meet kettle.

Brad

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:59  AM,  <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> Brad,
> I'm sorry  the your candidate didn't win the election, but I doubt that it  
 is
> fair to accuse the left of finally seeing that Mr. Obama can't do  
everything
> he has promised. The man isn't even in office yet and the  "righties" are
> already  pinning our current problems on him.  After eight years of an
> administration that  really was a farce,  at least give Obama four years to 
try and rectify
> the screw  ups  of this current administration.on  Don't even try to call 
me a
>  lefty or  a righty because I don't wear lapels that you can pin a label  
on.
> I'm just an  average "Joe" trying to get this country back on  the right 
track.
> The ultra  right wing conservative nut jobs have  run this country into the
> ground and now  it needs fixing. Using  the term conservative with the 
current
> administration is  an  insult to all true conservatives.
> Hopefully the very first act Mr.  Obama will sign will make stem cells
> available for research. It might  come in time to save a very good friends 
life.  I
> can't even  begin to tell you how pissed off HE is at this president.
>
>  Rummy.......time for a drink and football.
>
>
> In a  message dated 11/23/2008 8:24:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>  flybrad at gmail.com writes:
>
> Ed,
>
> Well, the  chickens have come home to roost, so to speak. I  don't envy
>  President-elect Obama and the problems he's been handed.   Perhaps  Stan
> is correct - is it too late to ask for a recount?   It's  been a lot of
> fun watching the far left get their panties  in a wad the last  two
> weeks after suddenly realizing that their  Chosen One can't  possibly
> deliver on 10% of what he promised.  Like most incoming  Presidents,
> he's stuck with a lot of policies  handed to him from the  previous
> administration.  He won't  pull out of Iraq on his promised  time
> schedule, he won't find an  easy solution to Afghanistan, and there  is
> no "magic bullet" for  our current economic woes. There are no  quick
> solutions and my  guess is that the current financial pain  we're
> suffering from  will last a good bit longer.  Throwing money at  the big
>  three automakers will only breathe a few months or years of life   into
> a broken business model.  Personally, I'd sure like a  do-over on  the
> bank bailout. One can only hope that Obama is as  smart as  his
> supporters have promised us he is - he'll need some  smarts for  sure.
> So far he's picked some really good people, not  all of them by  any
> means, but some.
>
> Attached is  an article from the Houston  Chronicle that does a pretty
> good  job of outlining our problems.  It  isn't easy being a
>  conservative these days, but I for one haven't given up  hope.
>  Sometimes people need to be beaten about the head and shoulders   for
> the lessons to take hold, or as we say in flight training,   "the
> beatings will continue until morale improves".
>
>  Unlike the far  left for the past eight years, I'm not going to  berate
> the President for  his every little miss-step.  I  sincerely hope he is
> The One.   That said, I'm preparing  just in case he isn't.
>
> On an unrelated note,  did you  know that the turkeys we eat for
> Thanksgiving are actually   killed?  I've been laughing my ass off at
> the "looney  lefties"  including the New York Times going berserk over
> Sarah  Palin giving an  interview while turkeys were being processed in
>  the background.  For  someone supposedly headed for the "dustbin  of
> history", they sure pay a lot  of attention to her every  move.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> America's  math  problem yields no simple solutions
> Much of the blame rests  with government  spending
> By PAUL W. HOBBY
> Nov. 21, 2008,  8:11PM
>
>
> So America  can still amaze the  world.
>
> Is the election of President-elect Barack  Obama a  blessed
> self-correction or radical over-correction for the  world's  greatest
> nation? We can't know just yet. But, no matter  how you voted, we  have
> to close ranks as a nation at this moment  in history, because  the
> tripod of American authority in the  world is dangerously  unstable.
>
> The tripod consists of  moral authority, economic authority  and
> military authority. For  reasons I need not detail, each of these  legs
> is stressed as  they haven't been in a very long while. In large  part
> whether we  succeed or fail in restoring our balance is about  simple
>  arithmetic. A serious math problem lurks in the shadows  that
>  heretofore neither party has been willing to address in a serious   way.
>
> Succinctly stated, the math problem is that the  federal  government
> spends too much — a lot too much. The current  deficit is a  record $455
> billion (before the bailout). The  national debt is $10.5  trillion.
>
> The reason for the  inattention is that politics doesn't like  math
> problems.  Speeches are easier, symbols are safe and  personal
> criticisms  are the very best, because those things don't  require
> anything  of us, the people. They don't require introspection,  or
>  sacrifice or sober prioritization of needs and wants. But maybe,   if
> there is a moment for hard reality to emerge, it is at the end  of  a
> political season. Just as it took a Southerner in LBJ to  pass  civil
> rights reform, real spending reform may have to come  from a  Democrat
> (LBJ had a balanced budget in  1969).
>
> Math problems are  hard, but they undergird the  universe. You cannot
> outrun or outtalk or out  organize the math  problem any more than you
> can outtalk or outrun physical   gravity. This is a problem that
> threatens the strength of our  currency,  inhibits the government's
> ability to respond to the  current fiscal crisis,  and diverts precious
> dollars from  infrastructure, education and all forms  of long-term
> public  investment.
>
> How did we get here? You know the  answer at  some level. We are all
> guilty of wanting to consume now and pay   later. Politics is forever
> the struggle between today (current  services)  and tomorrow (education
> and physical infrastructure),  and today usually  gives tomorrow a solid
> whipping. For the  "values voter" the math problem  also has a moral
> dimension,  because the practice of shipping the tab for  our lifestyle
> to  our children and grandchildren is truly obscene.  Ironically, the
>  best news for rich folks is that we can't tax our way out  of a mess  of
> this proportion. In a global economy, high marginal tax rates   will
> cause capital and tax base to migrate elsewhere.
>
>  Democrats  traditionally ignore the math problem. They just don't  turn
> in their  homework and figure that it will all be OK as long  as the tax
> code is  useful as a punitive device for administering  social justice
> rather than an  equitable means for funding  government. For their part,
> the Republicans  cheat on the math  problem. They talk about fiscal
> restraint and then spend  on  their contributors in a way that makes the
> drunkest of sailors  blush.  They say that if we reduce revenue enough
> we can  eventually balance the  budget. We have seen this "new" math
>  before when we were told that  supply-side economics would  magically
> erase the deficit problem. It is true  that tax cuts do  act as economic
> stimulus, but the temporary stimulus is   ultimately empty without
> spending restraint.
>
> Beyond  government  spending for a moment, the monetary new math said
>  that $2.5 trillion in  excess leverage (comparing the traditional
>  relationship of bank debt to  GDP) was OK because the risk had  been
> securitized through asset-lite  Enronomics, where the  markets parse
> derivative and speculative risk  intelligently, and  create wealth for
> the most efficient market participants  — in  the absence of any
> fundamental value creation in the underlying   economy. It wasn't OK,

> and a lot of people are getting hurt who  never  bargained for the risks
> they now face.
>
> Our  approach to the public  sector over the last eight years has been
>  if you disparage government long  enough it will get better.  Clearly
> that hasn't worked. Obama thinks that  government is  important and that
> it can help people, but it can only do so  if  it is fiscally strong.
> His budget cuts, therefore, would spring from  a  different motivation.
> Will that be enough to make them  palatable? I don't  know, but I do
> know that the math problem  demands that he  try.
>
> Perhaps the ultimate fiscal blunt  instrument, a balanced  budget
> amendment (with appropriate  exceptions for war or fiscal  emergency),
> may be the bad idea  whose time has come. Congress under both  parties
> has been unable  to discipline itself without it. Make no mistake,  this
>  mathematical exercise will be painful; all spending, not just   domestic
> discretionary spending, (38 percent of the total) must be  on  the
> table. The only spending that is truly nondiscretionary  is interest  on
> the national debt.
>
> Obama is very  smart, and he gives a very good  speech. If he simply
> allows the  latter gift to overcome the former gift, we  may temporarily
>  restore some moral authority in the world, and at least the  folks  who
> hate us will have to come up with a whole new set of reasons  to  do so.
>
> But this won't last; the math problem will  ultimately impoverish  us,
> and beggars don't retain their moral  authority very long. Real  change
> demands that the political  conversation begins to track the  fiscal
> reality for the first  time in a long time.
>
> When I first met  Obama in June  2007, I found him, as millions of
> others have, to be a  special  person. Is he special enough to lead us
> into the math problem  with  the kind of aspirational tone that got him
> elected? I think  so.
>
> I  hope so.
>
> I pray  so.
>
> Hobby is a Houston businessman with  extensive  experience in private
> and public finance.
>
>
> On  Sun, Nov  23, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>   wrote:
>>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> I am sorry  about your loss of  being able to use credit to conduct your
>>  business.  Actually, use  of credit has little to do with capitalism  but
>> rather economics  Keynesianism and manipulated market  theory.
>>
>> Understand the  biggest single cause of  the current economic 'Bubble'
>> bursting was the  manipulation  of mortgage market by National Democrats,
>> specifically  Sen.  Dodd of Connecticut and Barney Frank of Massachusetts.
>> These  two  induced Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac to push mortgages  without
>> historical  safeguards.
>>
>>  Specifically they pushed giving mortgages without  sufficient down  
payments
>> to assist mortgage lenders in recovering from   default and pushed giving
>> mortgages with balloon payments to those  who  would not be able to meet 
the
>> ballooning payment.   Read the  information available and you will find 
that
>> the  Bush administration  requested better oversight and stricter  lending
>> requirement.   Those two National Democrats and  their associates hindered 
or
>> stopped  better control.   That is a big part of the current credit  
crises.
>>
>>  This as Stan would say, according to Cindy Spitzer,  was a  'Bubble'.  The
>> bursting of this bubble crippled the   historically reliable mortgage 
market
>> by making all mortgages  credit  suspect.  This included all the packages 
of
>>  credit made from  those mortgages.
>>
>> This has  'mortally' harmed the credit  industry.  This has harmed not  
only
>> getting credit but those who  historically have used it  to smooth contact
>> payments out to pay  routine business  expenses. This harm caused by Fanny
> Mae
>> and Freddie   Mac will last 50 years or more.  Thank those in the U.  S.
>>  Congress who wanted to use the credit industry to finance  social aims.
>>  Thank you for supporting those  candidates.
>>
>> So how is above  this any different  from Obama's other 'Progressive 
Goals?'
>>  Unfortunately, those  who understand economics understand the problems  
that
>> an  Obama administration will have and cause.  Maybe the  stock market  
will
>> stabilize?  However, the harm inflicted on U.  S.  credit will linger.
>>
>> I am sorry that this will cause  you  great personal harm.  What were 
Warren
>> Buffett's  remarks the  other day about future inflation and devaluation  
of
>> the U. S  dollar?  Thank Barney and Chris and fellow  travelers, and your
>>  support of those policies and the  policies advocates.
>>
>> Elle  said, "Educators  haven't 'turned over' discipline; it has been 
ripped
>>  out of  their control by laws and regulations and lawsuits."  Yes   thank
>> plaintiff's attorneys for over zealous advocacy of minor  issues  and 
nominal
>> harms.  We have at least one of  those guys, on this  forum.  Actually, we
>> have several  but they lay low least they  hear about their  activities.
>>
>> Herb said, "At the same time, if  we  as parents were more involved in the
>> educational process of  our  children, most of us would be surprised at
>> exactly what  we can do.  However, in the relative vacuum of parental
>>  involvement, the  bureaucracies have thrived like a fungus, and we've  
ended
>> up where we  are now."
>>
>> The  simple truth is not all parents have time to be  involved.  When  both
>> parents work, as is needed in today's times  to make  ends meet, they do 
not
>> have time to attend PTA and other   activities.
>>
>> Discipline was integral when I  attended  school.  It has been hamstrung by
>>  bureaucracies and sociopaths  and those wanting schools to develop  
socially
>> conscious  students.  Just read about the  themes advocated by Obama's 
friend
>>  Bill Ayers.  He  disregards schools to build basic math and  communication
>>  skills for social purposes. Yet, we have so many who  follow the  sheep
>> herder…
>>
>> Ed   K
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> View this message  in context:
>  
http://www.nabble.com/Andrew%2C-Elle---Herb%2C-comments-on-your-posts.-tp20645864p20645864.html
>>   Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at   Nabble.com.
>>
>>
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