Lee,
As you have eluded to previously, there are a lot of factors that determine 
 hull speed in the water. If you are single handed, the 175 can be way to 
much  sail in a ten knot wind.  However, with the same conditions and two  
additional bodies on the rail can make the 175 a real performance booster.   
It's all about balance, sail and weight.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 6/24/2009 11:09:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
LKUHN at cnmc.org writes:


Ben,

The only time I can remember measuring performance  into the wind I had the
sheets run across the cabintop.  12 knot wind,  boom & board down, full 
main,
traveler centered, Genoa reefed to the  inside shroud, tiller locked, choppy
water.  It's in the archives but  I think I was going about 3.5 knots, which
was fast for me on a close reach  with that much wind--probably because the
boat was sailing itself.  I  measured 45 degrees into the wind which leads 
me
to believe that an  experienced sailor could get upwards to 40 degrees on a
close haul in the  right conditions.

I normally have the Genoa sheets ran outside the  shrouds but I mostly sail
on a close reach and I'd probably get faster  performance with the sheets 
ran
across the deck in between the  shrouds.  Unless I'm on a beam reach or more
off the wind, it's rare  that the full 175 decksweeper seems to add much
speed.

Switching the  sheets to different leads is easy on the windward side with
the poptop  up.  I haven't figured out how to comfortably do it yet with  
the
poptop down unless I pull in all the  sails.

Lee



benonvelvetelvis wrote:

> 
>  <<Makes me wonder.  Can you get closer to the wind with the Genoa  reefed
> so
> its clew touches the outside shroud, or closer with  the full Genoa pulled
> all the way back so its middle touches the  outside shroud?  They both
> would
> have the same angle of  attack up until they reached the shroud.>>
> 
> Furl it a  bit, and bring your sheets inside the outer shrouds.  You
>  probably
> have cleats on the side of the cabin trunk to run them  through.  This 
will
> let you pull it in further and point  higher.  I think some have sheeted 
it
> far enough to cleat on the  top of the cabin, but I don't think I've taken
> it
> that  far.
> 
> Ben
> R22 Velvet Elvis
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>  [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Leland
> Sent:  Tuesday, June 23, 2009 14:36
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] too windy--Now Centeboard Effect
> 
>  
> Chris,
> 
> I assumed I couldn't get that close upwind  with the full Genoa but I've
> never actually measured it with the board  down.
> 
> Makes me wonder.  Can you get closer to the wind  with the Genoa reefed so
> its clew touches the outside shroud, or  closer with the full Genoa pulled
> all the way back so its middle  touches the outside shroud?  They both
> would
> have the  same angle of attack up until they reached the shroud.
> 
>  Reference your comment about all the variables involved in sailing, I
>  developed a spreadsheet so I could log my speed in different conditions. 
 
> The biggest problems were that there were too many conditions,  my
> description of the conditions each time wasn't exactly consistent,  and 
any
> small inconsistency resulted in a different speed.  Still  can't tell the
> effect of chop and current.  You would think that  the bigger the chop the
> slower you would go into it, but chop is often  caused when the waves and
> current are going in opposite  directions.  If the waves and current are
> going in the same  direction, then they're both fighting you even though
> there may not be  any chop at all.
> 
> I tell people I like golf and sailing  because they both take place in
> beautiful outdoor environments, but  the addiction is because they're both
> so
> impossibly  challenging.
> 
> Lee
> 
> 
> 
> cowie  wrote:
>> 
>> Lee:
>> 
>> I hope to get  out sailing this Friday and Saturday.  I found a number of
>>  discusions from the group on close haul sailing and what angle is
>>  reasonable to be able to point in to the wind.  lots of variables,  wind
>> speed, chop, genoa sheet location, sail size, centerboard  position
>> etc....
> 
>> I experimented a bit tacking  back and forth in about 8kts of wind with
>> all
>> sail up  and sheets outside the stays and I seemed to get about 100
>>  degrees
>> tack to tack or 50 degrees off the wind.  Plan to  test this some more
>> adjusting all the variables.
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Leland wrote:
>>>  
>>> Chris,
>>> 
>>> So far this season  has been too wet & windy for many good sailing days,
>>> but  it doesn't sound like that's stopped you too much.  I should  have
>>> knocked on wood when I said there are a lot of days with  little wind
>>> around here in the summer.  Yesterday evening  the wind prediction
>>> dropped
>>> from 16 mph winds  to 9 to 11, which is just perfect for me.  When I
>>> started  out the actual wind was only 4 knots and immediately dropped  
to
>>> about 2 knots for over an hour.  It eventually picked  up to 6 knots
>>> about
>>> the time I had to go  in.
>>> 
>>> Per Stan's sailing tutorial, you need the  centerboard down in light 
wind
>>> more than heavy, if you want to  make any progress into the wind.  I
>>> never
>>>  actually measured the effect of the centerboard but it seemed like  it
>>> helped about 10 degrees and at worst caused a half knot  decrease in
>>> speed
>>> due to drag.
>>>  
>>> With little current and no chop at 1.2 knots I raised the  centerboard
>>> and
>>> the boat came off the wind  exactly 20 degrees and sped up to 2.2 
knots. 
>>> I was  surprised.  Later I had the board down at 2.4 knots and again  I
>>> lost 20 degrees and sped up 1 knot when I raised the  board.  I still
>>> assume that performance would be less  affected at higher speeds, but I
>>> wasn't expecting the  signficant difference caused by the board.  Really
>>> makes  you think about the drag caused by keels.  Even if you're  racing
>>> an
>>> experienced J-22 skipper, in light  winds you might have a noticeable
>>> advantage against her fixed  keel.
>>> 
>>> Lee
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> cowie wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> Lee:
>>>> 
>>>> I did go  down to the boat on Saturday for a couple of hours but did  
not
>>>> venture out into the bay.  I finaly figured out  how to remove the
>>>> clevis
>>>> pin form the  furling headsail in order to tighten up the forward 
stay. 
>>>>  I also noticed the turnbuckle didn't have any pins so I added to  a
>>>> piece
>>>> of wire to prevent it from  opening up.  I also added pins to all the
>>>> other stays  to keep them in place.
>>>> 
>>>> So far I have  been just day sailing pretty much like you, heading in
>>>>  whatever direction provides the best day sail.  With as much wind as  
we
>>>> have had so far this season I have had fun trying all  different sail
>>>> combinations.  With the wind blowing  above 15 kts I typicaly head up
>>>> wind as much as possible,  lower the boom and bring the jib sheets
>>>>  inside
>>>> the spreaders, then turn around and come  back.  I am hoping to take an
>>>> overnight trip soon  perhaps to St. Michaels.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>  
>>>>> Saturday was too wet and Sunday was consumed with  Father's Day 
stuff. 
>>>>> Sunday was too windy for my  enjoyment but I wanted to go out just for
>>>>> the  high-wind experience.  I think the forecast was around 20 mph,  
but
>>>>> the chop and gusts probably made it more work than  fun.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As a daysailor, my only  destination is the marina at the end of the
>>>>> sailing  day.  If the winds are less than 5 knots, my tacks are  
usually
>>>>> on close reaches out and back just to keep  moving.  Sometimes I'll
>>>>> motor downwind at the end  of the day just to get back quickly.  For
>>>>> winds  between 5-10 knots I usually go wherever I like since it's  
easy
>>>>> to get back home.  Beyond 10 knots I  typically go into the wind as
>>>>>  much
>>>>> as possible.  Boom and board down with  sheets run inside the 
shrouds. 
>>>>> It's a much smoother  sail heading into the chop and it's an easy
>>>>>  return
>>>>> home on a run or broad reach when you have a  strong wind.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Did you go out  over the weekend or decide it wasn't worth it? 
>>>>>  Saturday
>>>>> evening we thought we saw a Rhodes between  the Severn and bay bridge
>>>>> on
>>>>>  the western shore side.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  Lee
>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At  Ease
>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> cowie  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Did anyone  sail on the chesapeake bay this weekend?  Too many  
storms
>>>>>> and wind for  me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>  -- 
> View this message in context:
>  http://www.nabble.com/too-windy-tp24139112p24172236.html
> Sent from the  Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
>  __________________________________________________
> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  __________________________________________________
> 
>  __________________________________________________
> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  __________________________________________________
> 
> 

--  
View this message in context:  
http://www.nabble.com/too-windy-tp24139112p24186701.html
Sent from the  Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at  Nabble.com.

__________________________________________________
To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to  
http://www.rhodes22.org/list
__________________________________________________


**************Huge Savings on Popular Laptops only at Dell.com. Shop Now! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221900667x1201409530/aol?redir=http:
%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910242%3B38350777%3Bf)