I personally prefer young French maidens as deck apes.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 7/28/2009 12:01:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
sloopblueheron at gmail.com writes:

Lou,

They can't be bought, only  Shanghaied.

Rick

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Lou Rosenberg  <lsr3 at nyu.edu> wrote:

> Dave
>
> Where can I buy  Deck Apes?
> they're not in the WM catalog?
>
>  Lou
>
> On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:52 AM, David Walker  wrote:
>
> > I've tried to stay quiet while watching these  posts fly by but I
> > have to
> > make a few  comments.
> >
> > 1)  The R22 sails basically like a  big dinghy. It really wants to sail
> > relatively flat.  This  gives maximum depth to the CB, least wetted
> > surface
> >  and best hull form factor in the water.   All heel does is
>  > effectively lower
> > the sails, create weather helm and  portentially pull the rudder out
> > of the
> > water. If  the rudder is partially out of the water due to heel, it
> > is  less
> > effective and requires more angle which creates drag and can  stall the
> > rudder.  Some (not all) keel boats can sail faster  with significant
> > heeling
> > because they are designed  with significant hull overhangs which add
> > waterline length whwn  heeling.  This usually comes about due to
> > specific
>  > racing class design formulas.
> >
> > All that being  said the ways to reduce heal are to a) use deck
> > apes, b)  reef
> > sails and c) trim sails to maximize lift and minimize  drag
> >
> > 2)  All CB boats will sail better on the  wind with the board down.
> > Water
> > passing by the  boards leading edge at the leeway angle creates lift
> >  which
> > keeps the boat going intoo the wind.  The lateral  resistance of the
> > board is
> > mimimal compared to the  sails.  There is no reason (healing, light
> > air,
> >  heavy air) to sail on the wind with the board up.  The amount of
>  > board down
> > can be experimented with to modify weather/lee  helm as the CE
> > (center of
> > effort) of the board will  change relative to the CE of the sails
> > has the
> > board  is lowered.  On a run, racing sailors will raise the board to
>  > reduce
> > drag, but you will find that makes steering more  difficult as the
> > board and
> > the rudder combine to  create directional stability.
> >
> > For those interested I  reccommend a small paper back book entitled
> > "Sail
> >  Trim - Theory and Practice" by Peter Hahne, published by Sheridan
> >  House.  He
> > describes in detail, trimming techniques to use  to optimize sail
> > trim for
> > all conditions.
>  >
> >
> > David Walker
> >
> >  www.davidwalkerphotography.com
> >
> > Event  Specialists
> >
> > 781-639-2707 Office
> >  781-718-8690 Cell
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:  "Leland" <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
> > To:  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009  10:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>  >
> >
> >>
> >> John,
>  >>
> >> That makes sense.  If the boat normally heels  less with the
> >> centerboard
> >> up,
>  >> it stands to reason that it would also heel less in a big gust  of
> >> wind.
> >>
> >> Lee
>  >>
> >>
> >>
> >> jlock  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Actually I think it is the  opposite.  With the board up, a gust will
> >>> tend to  push the hull sideways more easily and expend some energy
> >>>  doing so, producing less heel.  But with the board down, it will
>  >>> offer
> >>> resistance to the sideways push of the  gust at a very low angle.
> >>> The
> >>>  results will be more heel above the waterline.
> >>>
>  >>> Cheers!
> >>> John Lock
> >>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>  >>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  >>>
> >>> On Jul 27, 2009, at 13:41, MichaelT  wrote:
> >>>> I'll have to balance the compromises here w/  needing to get
> >>>> somewhere vs a
>  >>>> relaxing time.
> >>>>
>  >>>> Btw, how real is the risk of a knockdown w/ the board  up?
> >>>> Has there been any reported knockdowns with the  board up?
> >>>> I suppose if a BIG gust came across and the  board was up that the
> >>>> boat will
>  >>>> react and heel much easier.
> >>>>
>  >>>> Michael
> >>>>
>  >>>>
> >>>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
>  >>>>>
> >>>>> Michael,
>  >>>>>
> >>>>> These 'board up' options are  a new one to me, partly because I
> >>>>> began
>  >>>>> serious sailing in a racing mode.  I do not know of  anyone who
> >>>>> would beat
>  >>>>> into the wind with the board up in competition, certainly  due to
> >>>>> slippage,
> >>>>>  which Hank emphasizes so well, but also the risk of knockdown.  I
>  >>>>> have
> >>>>> never tried it,  Michael, but I'd approach this technique with
> >>>>>  caution,
> >>>>> especially if your wife is  aboard.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Happy  sailing,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Art
>  >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: MichaelT  <mticse at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Jul 27, 2009  9:56 AM
> >>>>>> To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
> >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for the first  hand knowledge wrt the centerboard.
> >>>>>> You've  certainly changed the fundamentals of my logic. Womehow my
>  >>>>>> flawed
> >>>>>> thinking was  that with the board up that the Rhodes would heel
>  >>>>>> more and
> >>>>>> difficult  to turn. On the contrary, the Rhodes actually sails
>  >>>>>> better (i.e.
> >>>>>> less  heel, easy to to turn) with the board up. Definitely
>  >>>>>> something I will
> >>>>>> do  this week.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  Thanks Lee!
> >>>>>> Michael
>  >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> Leland wrote:
>  >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Michael,
> >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> With the board down it will allow you to sail  closer to the wind
> >>>>>>> and
>  >>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>> better  headway (less drifting).
> >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> However, the faster you go the less impact the  board will
> >>>>>>> have on
>  >>>>>>> both
> >>>>>>> sailing  close to the wind and headway.  The board is most useful
>  >>>>>>> if you
> >>>>>>> want  to make headway in light wind.
> >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> I'm a daysailor so the only time I need to make  better
> >>>>>>> headway is
>  >>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>  it's
> >>>>>>> necessary to get back to my marina  at the end of the day.  With
> >>>>>>>  yesterday's high wind and the current and chop pushing me away
>  >>>>>>> from the
> >>>>>>>  wind, I never once lowered my board and sailed part of the time
>  >>>>>>> on broad
> >>>>>>>  reaches and runs.  On tacks the boat turned like a sports car.
>  >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> With the  board down it will act as a pivot point and allow
>  >>>>>>> you to
> >>>>>>>  turn
> >>>>>>> easier whether you are tacking or  motoring around your slip.  I
> >>>>>>>  don't
> >>>>>>> use
>  >>>>>>> if for either one.
>  >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've  measured my speed countless times with the board up and
>  >>>>>>> down
> >>>>>>> and  it
> >>>>>>> has always had a negative impact on  speed.  I think the term
> >>>>>>> is  VMG
> >>>>>>> (velocity made good?) which measures  how much headway you're
> >>>>>>> actually
>  >>>>>>> making.  If I could figure out how to  measure it on my GPS I'm
> >>>>>>> sure it
>  >>>>>>> would show that the board helps, but with the  reduction in speed
> >>>>>>> it sure
>  >>>>>>> doesn't seem that way.
>  >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lee
>  >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> MichaelT  wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>> Lee,
>  >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I  was just thinking about bringing the centerboard up as you
>  >>>>>>>> suggested,
>  >>>>>>>> but have concerns.
>  >>>>>>>> Did you flip bringing the centerboard up and  down. Down when
> >>>>>>>> tacking
>  >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>  up after the tack?
> >>>>>>>> I remember when I  forgot to let the centerboard down and all I
>  >>>>>>>> could
>  >>>>>>>> remember was going sideways and difficulty in  making
> >>>>>>>> headway. In
>  >>>>>>>> essence
>  >>>>>>>> the boat was slipping and pushed sideways by  the wind when the
> >>>>>>>> centerboard is up.  I suppose as long as we don't need to be
>  >>>>>>>> anywhere
>  >>>>>>>> soon
> >>>>>>>>  this is all fine.
> >>>>>>>> At the end I'll  have to let my wife judge!
> >>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>> Great suggestion!
>  >>>>>>>> Michael
>  >>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Leland wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> Michael,
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> You're getting lots of good  advice.
> >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> You'll have a little less heel with the  board up.  From the
> >>>>>>>>>  Rhodes
> >>>>>>>>> Owners' Site under FAQs  under Rhodes vs. Com-Pac vs.
> >>>>>>>>>  Precisions:  5.
> >>>>>>>>> Retract the  centerboard part way in a big breeze. The board is
>  >>>>>>>>> intentionally modest in weight, and does  not contribute
> >>>>>>>>>  significantly
> >>>>>>>>> to
>  >>>>>>>>> stability up or down. Raising the board  part way will reduce
> >>>>>>>>> both  heel
> >>>>>>>>> and weather helm.
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> The quote refers to Precisions.  If  I raise the board all the
> >>>>>>>>> way  on
> >>>>>>>>> my
>  >>>>>>>>> Rhodes it usually only reduces heel by  about 3 degrees but
> >>>>>>>>> your
>  >>>>>>>>> wife
>  >>>>>>>>> may
>  >>>>>>>>> appreciate it.
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> In an 8-10 knot wind, lowering the boom  will reduce heel also.
> >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> As Dave mentioned the boat sails better  with two sails.
> >>>>>>>>> For the
>  >>>>>>>>> amount
>  >>>>>>>>> of wind you described you probably  weren't going fast
> >>>>>>>>> enough  to
> >>>>>>>>> tack.
>  >>>>>>>>> Come off the wind enough to get up some  speed and you'll then
> >>>>>>>>> be  able
> >>>>>>>>> to
>  >>>>>>>>> turn her sharply into the wind.
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> When I first got my Rhodes I typically  had too much sail out.
> >>>>>>>>>  You
> >>>>>>>>> were
>  >>>>>>>>> wise to be conservative in your sail  plan, but without any
> >>>>>>>>>  headsail
> >>>>>>>>> and
>  >>>>>>>>> so little main you probably couldn't get  enough speed to tack
> >>>>>>>>> even  if
> >>>>>>>>> you had come off the  wind.  Last week I was in a 12 knot wind.
>  >>>>>>>>> On a
>  >>>>>>>>> close reach with balanced sails with the  board up and my 190
> >>>>>>>>> lbs  of
> >>>>>>>>> rail
>  >>>>>>>>> meat, I had less than 20 degrees of heel  with the boom up and
> >>>>>>>>> the  main
> >>>>>>>>> reefed to 80%.  With  the boom down I had the same heel with
>  >>>>>>>>> 100% main.
>  >>>>>>>>> I have my mainsail furling line marked  for reefs at 60% and
> >>>>>>>>> 80%.   If I
> >>>>>>>>> have to reef the tiny little  main beyond 60%, it's too windy
> >>>>>>>>>  for me
> >>>>>>>>> (over 20 knots) and I go  home.
> >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> Good luck!
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> Lee
>  >>>>>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
>  >>>>>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>> david.walker5 wrote:
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>> Tacking with the jib, especially very  light or heavy wind
> >>>>>>>>>> can  be
> >>>>>>>>>> challenging
>  >>>>>>>>>> too.  The problem is the jib is  very powerfull and it
> >>>>>>>>>> wants  to
> >>>>>>>>>> push
>  >>>>>>>>>> the
>  >>>>>>>>>> boat
>  >>>>>>>>>> away from the tack.  One  technique that has worked for me is
>  >>>>>>>>>> something
>  >>>>>>>>>> I
>  >>>>>>>>>> borrowed from sailing a square  rigger.  When you push the
>  >>>>>>>>>> tiller to
>  >>>>>>>>>> lee,
>  >>>>>>>>>> loosen the jibe immediately, but do  not let the sheet fly.
> >>>>>>>>>>  (for
> >>>>>>>>>> those
>  >>>>>>>>>> interested its called scandalizing  the jib)  This reduces the
>  >>>>>>>>>> drive
>  >>>>>>>>>> of
>  >>>>>>>>>> the
>  >>>>>>>>>> sail and allows it to turn up  wind.  Just as the bow comes
>  >>>>>>>>>> into the
>  >>>>>>>>>> wind,
>  >>>>>>>>>> tighten the sheet a little. The wind  will then backwind the
> >>>>>>>>>> jib  and
> >>>>>>>>>> push the
>  >>>>>>>>>> bow the rest of the way onto the new  tack. As you come
> >>>>>>>>>>  through
> >>>>>>>>>> the
>  >>>>>>>>>> wind, the
>  >>>>>>>>>> wind on the new tack will push the  sail across to the new
> >>>>>>>>>>  tack.  In
> >>>>>>>>>> really
>  >>>>>>>>>> heavy wind you may end up "in stays"  or headed into the
> >>>>>>>>>> wind  and
> >>>>>>>>>> start
>  >>>>>>>>>> to be
>  >>>>>>>>>> pushed backwards.  In that case  as I said in an earlier post,
> >>>>>>>>>>  shift
> >>>>>>>>>> the
>  >>>>>>>>>> rudder (tiller to windward) and the  boat will back onto the
> >>>>>>>>>> new  tack
> >>>>>>>>>> and
>  >>>>>>>>>> start to sail.
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>> David Walker
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>  www.davidwalkerphotography.com
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>> Event Specialists
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>> 781-639-2707 Office
>  >>>>>>>>>> 781-718-8690 Cell
>  >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>  >>>>>>>>>> From: "Stephen Staum"  <staum at earthlink.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>  >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:32  PM
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] Partial Mainsail
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>> Michael,
>  >>>>>>>>>>> I too have a wife who likes to  sail flat. I have an '87 w a
>  >>>>>>>>>>> 184 per
>  >>>>>>>>>>> cent genoa. I usually start w 1/2  of the genny as the jib
> >>>>>>>>>>>  really
> >>>>>>>>>>> powers this boat.  Even w the full main out (alone) u will
>  >>>>>>>>>>> struggle
>  >>>>>>>>>>> to
>  >>>>>>>>>>> come about. Also, if u have the  full jib out in light winds,
>  >>>>>>>>>>> it can
>  >>>>>>>>>>> be
>  >>>>>>>>>>> very difficult 2 get the jib 2  come across when coming
> >>>>>>>>>>>  about.
> >>>>>>>>>>> It is
>  >>>>>>>>>>> often easier 2 jibe or roll up  1/2 the jib b4 come about is
>  >>>>>>>>>>> started.
>  >>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>  >>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Staum
>  >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>  >>>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:47 PM,  MichaelT <mticse at gmail.com>
>  >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>  >>>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> Went out with the family on  Sunday and wanted to play it
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> safe.
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> Drew the IMF mainsail approx  halfway on the boom (the
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> letter
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> R on
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> the sail
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't showing).
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> Wanted to keep things simple  and used no jib. Centerboard
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> was down
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> way.
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> The boat stayed flat as a  pancake which was the desired
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> effect.
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> My wife wants no heeling  whatsoever. Problem I had was I
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> tack.
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> It even had a hard time  getting into irons and just
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> cutover.
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> The only way I could change  direction was to spin 2/3's
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> around in a
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> jibe.
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't want to experiment  and let out more sail so we
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> just
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> enjoyed
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> sailing
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> the next hour like  this.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is this normal  behaviour? What am I doing wrong?
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> Michael
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> --
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in  context:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>  http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>  tp24647946p24647946.html
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22  mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or  for help with using the mailing
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>  >>>>>>>>>>>> to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for  help with using the mailing
>  >>>>>>>>>>> list go
>  >>>>>>>>>>> to
>  >>>>>>>>>>>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  >>>>>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help  with using the mailing
> >>>>>>>>>> list  go
> >>>>>>>>>> to
>  >>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  >>>>>>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> View this message  in context:
> >>>>  http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24681160.html
>  >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at  Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the  mailing list
> >>>>>> go to
> >>>>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the  mailing
> >>>>> list go
> >>>>>  to
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  >>>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>>
> >>>>>
>  >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> View  this message in context:
> >>>>  http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24685194.html
>  >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at  Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>>  __________________________________________________
> >>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>  >>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>  __________________________________________________
>  >>>>
> >>>
> >>>  __________________________________________________
> >>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>  >>> go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  >>> __________________________________________________
>  >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
>  >> View this message in context:
> >>  http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24698152.html
>  >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>  >>
> >>  __________________________________________________
> >> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>  go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>  __________________________________________________
> >>
>  >
> >
> >  __________________________________________________
> > To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >  to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >  __________________________________________________
>
> Lou  Rosenberg
> Videographer
>
> Steinhardt School of Culture,  Education and
> Human Development at NYU
>
> 239 Greene  Street, Room 315
> lsr3 at nyu.edu
>
> (212)  998-5122
>
>
>
>
>  __________________________________________________
> To  subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  __________________________________________________
>
__________________________________________________
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