Thanks for bringing this up Roger. You might recall that my centerboard was 
stuck in the trunk last summer, and it took quite a bit of effort to scrape 
out all of the fouling mass in order to get it to lower. Most of the 
fouling organisms were gooseneck barnacles (Balanus sp.), oyster spat 
(Crassostrea virginica), and Bryozoans. This fouling resulted under the 
previous owners watch, so I cannot comment on the time it took to achieve 
the condition. I was unaware of it as the boat sat on a trailer during it's 
overhaul, and the centerboard was not able to be accessed from the outside. 
I never did pull off the CB Cap.

Within the next several weeks (time permitting) I plan to lay the boat over 
in the clear water near the island and assess the condition again. I will 
take some pictures with the Nikonos and post them (if it's possible to get 
a view in there), along with any commentary. I haven't done any maintenance 
to this area since July, and don't plan to haul the boat till deep winter 
(maybe around March) in order to bottom paint. Currently the CB is 
partially down, I have not exercised it in awhile (other than plowing over 
a few shoals).
jw
Jim White
Le Menagerie

At 02:49 PM 12/3/2004, you wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard & 
>inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance 
>issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of 
>us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.
>
>I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all 
>that time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological 
>fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the 
>trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue 
>for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
>
>If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How 
>widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the 
>problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
>
>So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with 
>biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please 
>don't be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes 
>List was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't 
>experienced the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the 
>problem is very localized.
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

Hi All,

Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard & inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.

I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all that time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)

If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.

So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please don't be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very localized.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Roger,
	I am not aware of a centerboard fowling problem in this part of the
country.  I just pulled my boat out two weeks ago.  It was in the water
since February.  Warm soupy water all summer.  We grow red algae around
here.  I have not noticed any problem.  I use the local paint which is the
same as Rummy, Interlux.
	I was out on the North Carolina Coast last week.  Barnacles seem to
be a big problem.  I do not know how long the boats were in the water, but
they had little sea shells all over them.  Maybe they were little muscles?
We need Jim, the Texas biologist to explain.  I could see a centerboard
getting jammed quickly.
	
Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA
Addendum:
	Back in the 1800s, the Tates Watch Company of Massachusetts
wanted to produce other products and, since they already made the
cases for pocket watches, decided to market compasses for the
pioneers traveling west.
	It turned out that although their watches were of finest quality,
their compasses were so bad that people often ended up in Canada or Mexico
rather than California. This, of course, is the origin of the  expression,
"He who has a Tates is lost!"

Bill
I guess I can take a shot at this one.

  A week (or two) in most saltwater areas is no big deal, and even here 
where the water is pretty warm year round (seldom gets below low 60's). we 
routinely leave unpainted skiffs in the water for several weeks or more, 
with relatively little growth. Things like barnacles and oyster spat 
usually take a while to attach, and even then they are very small, and 
easily detached with a light scrubbing, we use a stiff plastic spatula, 
then just blast the hull with a power washer. Works real well.

Some of our research here centers on actually catching particular species 
of fouling organisms, and of course along with them come other unwanted 
ones such as barnacles. I rarely see any barnacle growth inside of 2 weeks, 
and most occurs over the course of four or more weeks of constant 
immersion, even then it is not significant enough to be a real problem. Of 
course this can vary from place to place.

You will probably notice some growth if you leave your boat in salt water 
for more than a week without bottom paint, but for the most part it will be 
spotty and light, not an all out "hula skirt".There are many species 
larval, and subadult both phytoplankton and zooplankton that love to 
colonize objects in the water. Marine (and fresh water) life are always 
looking for a free ride, and a boat, painted or unpainted is just that. 
Bottom paint just slows it down, it does not totally eliminate the 
problem.  Most of what you find will be local species of macro-algae and 
perhaps some colonial tunicates and bryozoa...all critters easily removed, 
and in that time duration probably not a whole lot worse than your "pond 
scum". I don't think your centerboard trunk will be affected, and certainly 
a good scrub afterward will return things to status quo.

If you don't leave your boat in the water for extended periods, and don't 
bottom paint, I certainly wouldn't consider doing that for a short stay in 
the briney such as you have described.

jw
Jim White
Le Menagerie

At 05:06 PM 12/3/2004, you wrote:

>What happens if you don't have any bottom paint at all?  My boat is kept in
>fresh water and does not have any bottom paint.  All that is necessary is a
>good pressure washing to clean the "pond scum" and alge from the hull
>whenever the boat is hauled.  It comes off easily as long as you get it off
>before it dries.  So, while the bottom looks pretty when cleaned (ie. waxed
>like the topsides), I wonder.....what is going to happen when I take the
>boat to the coast and subject it to salt water for a week or two?  I guess
>the real question is, how long does it take for marine growth to start
>forming on your hull?  If I only have the boat in the water for one week
>will I have a barnacle problem when I take it out?  How many of you folks
>out there do not have any bottom paint?  How has it worked out when you put
>your boat in salt water for short periods?
>
>Bill W.
>
>
>
>
>|---------+---------------------------------->
>|         |           "Roger Pihlaja"        |
>|         |           <cen09402 at centurytel.ne|
>|         |           t>                     |
>|         |           Sent by:               |
>|         |           rhodes22-list-bounces at r|
>|         |           hodes22.org            |
>|         |                                  |
>|         |                                  |
>|         |           12/03/2004 03:49 PM    |
>|         |           Please respond to The  |
>|         |           Rhodes 22 mail list    |
>|         |                                  |
>|---------+---------------------------------->
> 
>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>   | 
>                                                         |
>   |       To:       "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
> |
>   |       cc: 
>                                                         |
>   |       Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard 
> Fouling/Jamming - A Serious      Issue?                               |
> 
>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard &
>inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance
>issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of
>us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.
>
>I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all that
>time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological
>fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the
>trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue
>for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
>
>If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
>widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the
>problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
>
>So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with
>biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please don't
>be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List
>was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced
>the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very
>localized.
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

What happens if you don't have any bottom paint at all?  My boat is kept in
fresh water and does not have any bottom paint.  All that is necessary is a
good pressure washing to clean the "pond scum" and alge from the hull
whenever the boat is hauled.  It comes off easily as long as you get it off
before it dries.  So, while the bottom looks pretty when cleaned (ie. waxed
like the topsides), I wonder.....what is going to happen when I take the
boat to the coast and subject it to salt water for a week or two?  I guess
the real question is, how long does it take for marine growth to start
forming on your hull?  If I only have the boat in the water for one week
will I have a barnacle problem when I take it out?  How many of you folks
out there do not have any bottom paint?  How has it worked out when you put
your boat in salt water for short periods?

Bill W.




|---------+---------------------------------->
|         |           "Roger Pihlaja"        |
|         |           <cen09402 at centurytel.ne|
|         |           t>                     |
|         |           Sent by:               |
|         |           rhodes22-list-bounces at r|
|         |           hodes22.org            |
|         |                                  |
|         |                                  |
|         |           12/03/2004 03:49 PM    |
|         |           Please respond to The  |
|         |           Rhodes 22 mail list    |
|         |                                  |
|---------+---------------------------------->
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                              |
  |       To:       "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>                                                       |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                    |
  |       Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard Fouling/Jamming - A Serious      Issue?                               |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




Hi All,

Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard &
inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance
issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of
us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.

I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all that
time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological
fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the
trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue
for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)

If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the
problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.

So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with
biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please don't
be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List
was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced
the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very
localized.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

__________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

That must be some pretty rich water to get such instantaneous growth. I've 
never encountered anything like that before. Might result from high levels 
of nitrogen / phosphorus based nutrients in the water column or some other 
factor. Is that local, or consistent with the whole geographic area (i.e. 
coast), you sail near NYC right?. I'll check our data bases here and see if 
anyone has published anything about that....sounds interesting.

Of course most of my work has been in the Pacific and Gulf of Mexico, 
although I did a short stint at Woods Hole a few years back, and as I 
recall, even their boats didn't have that kind of problem. In Alaskan 
waters, we left unpainted skiffs in the drink for pretty long periods too 
without much fouling.

A day sounds pretty severe. Must be growing some pretty nasty stuff there. 
A month is enough time to get some critters going.

The barnacles that you have to grind off, how long were they growing on the 
hull? Any idea the species? I would venture that they probably are acorn 
barnacles (Balanus nubilis), but I'm sure you have gooseneck barnacles 
there too, they are ubiquitous.

  I've had Menagerie in the water since May (with new bottom paint), and 
only have a few very small barnacles below the waterline. I detached a few 
in July when I lowered the CB with a gloved hand. That was 3 months time.

Gosh, there could be a paper or two here. I should try and collect some 
fouling data from different areas and compare the rate and speciation.....

BTW I just queried the Biological abstracts for a comparative study of 
benthic and sessile marine organism growth rates in US Waters and didn't 
turn up a single paper........

jw
Jim White
Le Menagerie


At 05:56 PM 12/3/2004, you wrote:

>Around here you shouldn't even dream about it.  It varies from location to 
>location, but if some of these things latch onto your hull you don't want 
>to know what it takes to get them off.
>
>I had a waxed, no bottom paint hull on a previous boat that I would put 
>into the salt water for a day.  But that was it.
>
>If my mooring goes into the water a month before I get around to launching 
>my boat, the mooring line is coated with growth by the time I pull it out 
>of the water, notwithstanding the fact that the line is coated with 
>anitfouling paint.  It takes a week of chlorine treatments to kill it 
>all.  I still get an occasional barnacle, even with my top rated bottom 
>paint.  I have to grind them off.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>William E. Wickman wrote:
>
>>What happens if you don't have any bottom paint at all?  My boat is kept in
>>fresh water and does not have any bottom paint.  All that is necessary is a
>>good pressure washing to clean the "pond scum" and alge from the hull
>>whenever the boat is hauled.  It comes off easily as long as you get it off
>>before it dries.  So, while the bottom looks pretty when cleaned (ie. waxed
>>like the topsides), I wonder.....what is going to happen when I take the
>>boat to the coast and subject it to salt water for a week or two?  I guess
>>the real question is, how long does it take for marine growth to start
>>forming on your hull?  If I only have the boat in the water for one week
>>will I have a barnacle problem when I take it out?  How many of you folks
>>out there do not have any bottom paint?  How has it worked out when you put
>>your boat in salt water for short periods?
>>
>>Bill W.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>|---------+---------------------------------->
>>|         |           "Roger Pihlaja"        |
>>|         |           <cen09402 at centurytel.ne|
>>|         |           t>                     |
>>|         |           Sent by:               |
>>|         |           rhodes22-list-bounces at r|
>>|         |           hodes22.org            |
>>|         |                                  |
>>|         |                                  |
>>|         |           12/03/2004 03:49 PM    |
>>|         |           Please respond to The  |
>>|         |           Rhodes 22 mail list    |
>>|         |                                  |
>>|---------+---------------------------------->
>> 
>>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>>  | 
>>                                                         |
>>  |       To:       "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
>> |
>>  |       cc: 
>>                                                         |
>>  |       Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard 
>> Fouling/Jamming - A Serious      Issue?                               |
>> 
>>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard &
>>inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance
>>issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of
>>us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.
>>
>>I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all that
>>time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological
>>fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the
>>trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue
>>for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
>>
>>If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
>>widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the
>>problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
>>
>>So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with
>>biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please don't
>>be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List
>>was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced
>>the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very
>>localized.
>>
>>Roger Pihlaja
>>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

Robert:
Most invertebrate marine organisms can only tolerate rapid, heavy salinity 
changes for short periods. Barnacles, which are actually closely related to 
shrimp and lobsters (they're crustaceans) are one which are pretty 
sensitive to these changes.

So sailing up into  fresh water and remaining there for a bit of time would 
kill the organisms on ones hull. The barnacle "shell" is composed of 
calcium carbonate, that over time would dissociate in fresh water 
(especially fresh water with a slightly acidic pH), but I have doubts as to 
whether they would actually fall off.....probably most of the oldtimers 
would scrape along the bottom a bit, dislodging things. Barnacle 
attachments, once firm are pretty secure.

I have also heard of this method used down South (I believe in the Rio 
Dulce region of Guatemala), where the local fisherman bring their boats up 
the fresh water river during the off season, mooring them there. 
Anecdotally, they say that during the off season fresh water growth begins 
to colonize, then when they return to sea, it dies and the process starts 
over. Sounds like a good method of biologic control.
jw
Jim White
Le Menagerie

At 06:22 PM 12/3/2004, you wrote:

>Jim White wrote:
> > ...
> >   A week (or two) in most saltwater areas is no big deal, and even here
> > where the water is pretty warm year round (seldom gets below low 60's)...
> > If you don't leave your boat in the water for extended periods, and don't
> > bottom paint, I certainly wouldn't consider doing that for a short stay in
> > the briney such as you have described.
>
>Historically in the Chesapeake and in Maine, sailing up a
>river into fresh water for a week or so was/is supposed to
>cause barnacles to fall off.
>
>Is there any truth to this?
>
>/Robert Skinner
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

Around here you shouldn't even dream about it.  It varies from location 
to location, but if some of these things latch onto your hull you don't 
want to know what it takes to get them off.

I had a waxed, no bottom paint hull on a previous boat that I would put 
into the salt water for a day.  But that was it.

If my mooring goes into the water a month before I get around to 
launching my boat, the mooring line is coated with growth by the time I 
pull it out of the water, notwithstanding the fact that the line is 
coated with anitfouling paint.  It takes a week of chlorine treatments 
to kill it all.  I still get an occasional barnacle, even with my top 
rated bottom paint.  I have to grind them off.

Bill Effros

William E. Wickman wrote:

>What happens if you don't have any bottom paint at all?  My boat is kept in
>fresh water and does not have any bottom paint.  All that is necessary is a
>good pressure washing to clean the "pond scum" and alge from the hull
>whenever the boat is hauled.  It comes off easily as long as you get it off
>before it dries.  So, while the bottom looks pretty when cleaned (ie. waxed
>like the topsides), I wonder.....what is going to happen when I take the
>boat to the coast and subject it to salt water for a week or two?  I guess
>the real question is, how long does it take for marine growth to start
>forming on your hull?  If I only have the boat in the water for one week
>will I have a barnacle problem when I take it out?  How many of you folks
>out there do not have any bottom paint?  How has it worked out when you put
>your boat in salt water for short periods?
>
>Bill W.
>
>
>
>
>|---------+---------------------------------->
>|         |           "Roger Pihlaja"        |
>|         |           <cen09402 at centurytel.ne|
>|         |           t>                     |
>|         |           Sent by:               |
>|         |           rhodes22-list-bounces at r|
>|         |           hodes22.org            |
>|         |                                  |
>|         |                                  |
>|         |           12/03/2004 03:49 PM    |
>|         |           Please respond to The  |
>|         |           Rhodes 22 mail list    |
>|         |                                  |
>|---------+---------------------------------->
>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>  |                                                                                                                              |
>  |       To:       "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>                                                       |
>  |       cc:                                                                                                                    |
>  |       Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard Fouling/Jamming - A Serious      Issue?                               |
>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard &
>inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance
>issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of
>us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.
>
>I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all that
>time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological
>fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the
>trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue
>for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
>
>If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
>widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the
>problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
>
>So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with
>biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please don't
>be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List
>was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced
>the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very
>localized.
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>  
>

Jim,

Practical Sailor has written about it.  Their corporate headquarters are 
here in Greenwich, and they tested bottom paint on a raft in one of the 
local harbors.  The raft broke loose a few years ago so now they test in 
a notorious site in Florida (I think) as well.

Their best advice is that different paints work in different places.  
Since they test where I live, I use what they top rate. 

I don't know enough about barnacles to tell you what I have, and I don't 
find them until the end of the season, so I can't say how long they've 
been there.  The centerboard will jam pretty early if I don't use it all 
the time.  That is invariably barnacles.  Also they will clog the head 
intake--part of the reason I am switching to fresh water flushing.

The barnacles usually attach to spots that don't have paint on them--the 
plastic parts, although somehow they sometimes stick right onto the 
bottom paint.

That just about exhausts my knowledge on this topic.

Bill Effros



Jim White wrote:

> That must be some pretty rich water to get such instantaneous growth. 
> I've never encountered anything like that before. Might result from 
> high levels of nitrogen / phosphorus based nutrients in the water 
> column or some other factor. Is that local, or consistent with the 
> whole geographic area (i.e. coast), you sail near NYC right?. I'll 
> check our data bases here and see if anyone has published anything 
> about that....sounds interesting.
>
> Of course most of my work has been in the Pacific and Gulf of Mexico, 
> although I did a short stint at Woods Hole a few years back, and as I 
> recall, even their boats didn't have that kind of problem. In Alaskan 
> waters, we left unpainted skiffs in the drink for pretty long periods 
> too without much fouling.
>
> A day sounds pretty severe. Must be growing some pretty nasty stuff 
> there. A month is enough time to get some critters going.
>
> The barnacles that you have to grind off, how long were they growing 
> on the hull? Any idea the species? I would venture that they probably 
> are acorn barnacles (Balanus nubilis), but I'm sure you have gooseneck 
> barnacles there too, they are ubiquitous.
>
>  I've had Menagerie in the water since May (with new bottom paint), 
> and only have a few very small barnacles below the waterline. I 
> detached a few in July when I lowered the CB with a gloved hand. That 
> was 3 months time.
>
> Gosh, there could be a paper or two here. I should try and collect 
> some fouling data from different areas and compare the rate and 
> speciation.....
>
> BTW I just queried the Biological abstracts for a comparative study of 
> benthic and sessile marine organism growth rates in US Waters and 
> didn't turn up a single paper........
>
> jw
> Jim White
> Le Menagerie
>
>
> At 05:56 PM 12/3/2004, you wrote:
>
>> Around here you shouldn't even dream about it.  It varies from 
>> location to location, but if some of these things latch onto your 
>> hull you don't want to know what it takes to get them off.
>>
>> I had a waxed, no bottom paint hull on a previous boat that I would 
>> put into the salt water for a day.  But that was it.
>>
>> If my mooring goes into the water a month before I get around to 
>> launching my boat, the mooring line is coated with growth by the time 
>> I pull it out of the water, notwithstanding the fact that the line is 
>> coated with anitfouling paint.  It takes a week of chlorine 
>> treatments to kill it all.  I still get an occasional barnacle, even 
>> with my top rated bottom paint.  I have to grind them off.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> William E. Wickman wrote:
>>
>>> What happens if you don't have any bottom paint at all?  My boat is 
>>> kept in
>>> fresh water and does not have any bottom paint.  All that is 
>>> necessary is a
>>> good pressure washing to clean the "pond scum" and alge from the hull
>>> whenever the boat is hauled.  It comes off easily as long as you get 
>>> it off
>>> before it dries.  So, while the bottom looks pretty when cleaned 
>>> (ie. waxed
>>> like the topsides), I wonder.....what is going to happen when I take 
>>> the
>>> boat to the coast and subject it to salt water for a week or two?  I 
>>> guess
>>> the real question is, how long does it take for marine growth to start
>>> forming on your hull?  If I only have the boat in the water for one 
>>> week
>>> will I have a barnacle problem when I take it out?  How many of you 
>>> folks
>>> out there do not have any bottom paint?  How has it worked out when 
>>> you put
>>> your boat in salt water for short periods?
>>>
>>> Bill W.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> |---------+---------------------------------->
>>> |         |           "Roger Pihlaja"        |
>>> |         |           <cen09402 at centurytel.ne|
>>> |         |           t>                     |
>>> |         |           Sent by:               |
>>> |         |           rhodes22-list-bounces at r|
>>> |         |           hodes22.org            |
>>> |         |                                  |
>>> |         |                                  |
>>> |         |           12/03/2004 03:49 PM    |
>>> |         |           Please respond to The  |
>>> |         |           Rhodes 22 mail list    |
>>> |         |                                  |
>>> |---------+---------------------------------->
>>>
>>>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
>>>
>>>  |                                                         |
>>>  |       To:       "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> |
>>>  |       cc:                                                         |
>>>  |       Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard 
>>> Fouling/Jamming - A Serious      Issue?                               |
>>>
>>>  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard &
>>> inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance
>>> issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for 
>>> those of
>>> us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.
>>>
>>> I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In 
>>> all that
>>> time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological
>>> fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside 
>>> in the
>>> trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance 
>>> issue
>>> for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
>>>
>>> If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
>>> widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal 
>>> with the
>>> problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
>>>
>>> So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience 
>>> with
>>> biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  
>>> Please don't
>>> be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes 
>>> List
>>> was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't 
>>> experienced
>>> the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very
>>> localized.
>>>
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>

Roger, et al,
I sail in the fresh waters of the Minnesota lakes and I've never had a
problem.  We've had our R22 for several years and I've never done any
maintenance on our CB.  It sticks in the up position sometimes but it seems
to be because of the tack we're on.  If I luff up sharply and then quickly
fall off again, then the board drops.  So it might be fouled a little but
not much--and it doesn't seem to be getting any worse.
Slim  

On 12/3/04 2:49 PM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard & inside
> the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance issue on
> Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of us that sail
> in severly fouling waters, like down south.
> 
> I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all that
> time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological fouling
> as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the trunk.
> According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue for folks in
> his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
> 
> If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
> widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the
> problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
> 
> So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with
> biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please don't be
> shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List was
> created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced the
> problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very localized.
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

Here in Michigan, the Great Lakes and many of the inland lakes and rivers
have been invaded by Zebra mussels (Dreissena polymorpha).  We've had them
in Sanford Lake, where I have my home & sail most of the time since 1998.
My dock pilings, seawalls, and rock riprap are completely encrusted with
them.  They can give you a nasty cut if you rub up against one & break open
the shell.  So, we've taken to swimming with water shoes & we're very
careful when swimming around the dock.

I've watched pontoon boats sink a couple of inches lower in the water over
the course of a summer due to Zebra mussel growth.  These vessels were
unprotected in the water all summer and usually only used infrequently by
the owners of vacation cottages.  I would imagine, this sort of encrustation
has a pretty significant effect upon performance & fuel mileage.  If Zebra
mussels got heavily established on the centerboard or up in the well, I
suppose they could jam it.  However, if the centerboard were raised &
lowered occasionally, that would probably knock most Zebra mussels off
before they really got established.

Other than Zebra mussels, the primary fouling issue around here is slime &
algae.  I've used Interlux VC-17M bottom paint for many years.  I have to
apply it every year; but, I like it because it doesn't build up into thick
layers that have to be removed.  The previous owner used some sort of soft
tar-based bottom paint that was 1/10"+ thick in places (really!) and was a
royal PITA to remove back in 1987.  I usually paint the boat on the trailer
annually & only the very bottom of the center board (the leading edge under
sail) & the lips of the centerboard well get an annual recoat.  The
centerboard & well only get painted about every three years in the spring
when I take Dynamic Equilibrium to a paint shop with a lift.  So far, there
has been no Zebra mussel growth up inside the centerboard well or on the
board itself.  I've had to scrape them off the plastic cockpit drain, the
knotlog thru hull, and the depth sounder transducer, none of which are
bottom painted.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:49 PM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard Fouling/Jamming - A Serious
Issue?


> Hi All,
>
> Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard &
inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance
issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of us
that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.
>
> I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all
that time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological
fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the
trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue
for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
>
> If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the
problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
>
> So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with
biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please don't
be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List was
created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced the
problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very
localized.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>

Thanks for the sound advice Jim.  I have been told that once you go to
bottom painting, you can never go back.  I would rather wait until I know
that I need it before going through the expense and hassle of bottom
painting my boat.  Then again...I may eat my words after my first trip to
the sea!

Bill W.





|---------+---------------------------------->
|         |           Jim White              |
|         |           <jdwhite at utpa.edu>     |
|         |           Sent by:               |
|         |           rhodes22-list-bounces at r|
|         |           hodes22.org            |
|         |                                  |
|         |                                  |
|         |           12/03/2004 06:43 PM    |
|         |           Please respond to The  |
|         |           Rhodes 22 mail list    |
|         |                                  |
|---------+---------------------------------->
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                              |
  |       To:       The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>                                                         |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                    |
  |       Subject:  Re: [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard Fouling/Jamming - A Serious  Issue?                               |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




Bill
I guess I can take a shot at this one.

  A week (or two) in most saltwater areas is no big deal, and even here
where the water is pretty warm year round (seldom gets below low 60's). we
routinely leave unpainted skiffs in the water for several weeks or more,
with relatively little growth. Things like barnacles and oyster spat
usually take a while to attach, and even then they are very small, and
easily detached with a light scrubbing, we use a stiff plastic spatula,
then just blast the hull with a power washer. Works real well.

Some of our research here centers on actually catching particular species
of fouling organisms, and of course along with them come other unwanted
ones such as barnacles. I rarely see any barnacle growth inside of 2 weeks,

and most occurs over the course of four or more weeks of constant
immersion, even then it is not significant enough to be a real problem. Of
course this can vary from place to place.

You will probably notice some growth if you leave your boat in salt water
for more than a week without bottom paint, but for the most part it will be

spotty and light, not an all out "hula skirt".There are many species
larval, and subadult both phytoplankton and zooplankton that love to
colonize objects in the water. Marine (and fresh water) life are always
looking for a free ride, and a boat, painted or unpainted is just that.
Bottom paint just slows it down, it does not totally eliminate the
problem.  Most of what you find will be local species of macro-algae and
perhaps some colonial tunicates and bryozoa...all critters easily removed,
and in that time duration probably not a whole lot worse than your "pond
scum". I don't think your centerboard trunk will be affected, and certainly

a good scrub afterward will return things to status quo.

If you don't leave your boat in the water for extended periods, and don't
bottom paint, I certainly wouldn't consider doing that for a short stay in
the briney such as you have described.

jw
Jim White
Le Menagerie

At 05:06 PM 12/3/2004, you wrote:

>What happens if you don't have any bottom paint at all?  My boat is kept
in
>fresh water and does not have any bottom paint.  All that is necessary is
a
>good pressure washing to clean the "pond scum" and alge from the hull
>whenever the boat is hauled.  It comes off easily as long as you get it
off
>before it dries.  So, while the bottom looks pretty when cleaned (ie.
waxed
>like the topsides), I wonder.....what is going to happen when I take the
>boat to the coast and subject it to salt water for a week or two?  I guess
>the real question is, how long does it take for marine growth to start
>forming on your hull?  If I only have the boat in the water for one week
>will I have a barnacle problem when I take it out?  How many of you folks
>out there do not have any bottom paint?  How has it worked out when you
put
>your boat in salt water for short periods?
>
>Bill W.
>
>
>
>
>|---------+---------------------------------->
>|         |           "Roger Pihlaja"        |
>|         |           <cen09402 at centurytel.ne|
>|         |           t>                     |
>|         |           Sent by:               |
>|         |           rhodes22-list-bounces at r|
>|         |           hodes22.org            |
>|         |                                  |
>|         |                                  |
>|         |           12/03/2004 03:49 PM    |
>|         |           Please respond to The  |
>|         |           Rhodes 22 mail list    |
>|         |                                  |
>|---------+---------------------------------->
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

>   |
>                                                         |
>   |       To:       "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> |
>   |       cc:
>                                                         |
>   |       Subject:  [Rhodes22-list] Biological Centerboard
> Fouling/Jamming - A Serious      Issue?                               |
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

>
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Richard Smith has brought up the issue of fouling on the centerboard &
>inside the centerboard trunk as being a potentially serious maintenance
>issue on Rhodes 22's.  It is apparently only a serious issue for those of
>us that sail in severly fouling waters, like down south.
>
>I've been a member of the Rhodes List about as long as anyone.  In all
that
>time, I can't recall anyone except Richard ever mentioning biological
>fouling as being a prime cause of jamming the centerboard up inside in the
>trunk.  According to Richard, it's a fairly significant maintenance issue
>for folks in his area that sail centerboard boats. (Rockaway Inlet?)
>
>If there really is an issue here, it should be more widely known.  How
>widespread is the problem?  How are other folks managing to deal with the
>problem?  It may even rate its own FAQ topic.
>
>So, I'm asking all Rhodes 22 sailors, what has been your experience with
>biological fouling & subsequent jamming of your centerboards?  Please
don't
>be shy about responding.  This is the sort of discussion the Rhodes List
>was created to encourage.  If you sail in warm water & haven't experienced
>the problem; then, tell us where you sail.  Perhaps the problem is very
>localized.
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

__________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list